Problem with blades breaking in clamp

[OCtoolguy]

Hello all, I've been away for a while but am glad to be back. A close friend who is a gifted scroll sawer is having a problem with Flying Dutchman blades. She bought a bunch of them from The Wooden Teddy Bear. The blades are number 5 if I'm not mistaken and when she inserts the blade into the clamp the end snaps off. The saw is brand new (less than a year) and so she asked me if I ever have this problem. I said no and that she should call those folks and let them know. I think it's a bad batch of blades with bad heat treating. She bought some Olsen blades at Wood craft store and doesn't have the problem with them. Anyway, the people at Wooden Teddy Bear told her it's her saw and that the problem is the clamp screw. If that was the case, wouldn't she have the same problem with the Olsen blades? Anyway, I told her I would check with you folks because I swear I had read of someone else here that had the same problem. Feedback anybody? Please?

 

Ray

 

[hotshot]

Some of the Olsen blades offerings (like the Precision Ground) have a little more heft to them and I would think could handle more abuse.

 

That said #5 isn't a small blade, so it should be able to handle a lot.  

 

Here are my ideas:

 

1.  What type of Saw is she using.  If it is a DW788 or EX, then she needs to check the set screw to make sure it hasn't worked itself into the clamp.  Newer (non-Barrel clamp) Hawks might have this same deal, I'm not sure.  If she is using a Hegner, the top clamp should have some slack to swivel slightly.

2.  Does it always break on the top (or the bottom).  The thing is, if the blades were weak, I wouldn't expect it to always break towards on the same end or in the same place.  If it always breaks near the same clamp, then focus on issues with that specific clamp.

3.  You said she was an experienced scroller, has she changed saws since the issues started, or is she using the same saw she has always used?

4.  How thick of wood is she cutting?  Thick wood is blade abusive.

5.  Have her cut for a few minutes, then check blade tension to see if she is losing tension after it is initially set.  Blade could be slipping.

6.  If you yourself cut with FD #5, then as a sanity check, have her give you a few blades to test with, which takes her saw out of the equation.

Edited January 19, 2017 by hotshot

[OCtoolguy]

Thanks for your reply Hotshot. She is what I would call a very good beginner. She started out with a cheapo saw and then bought a DW 788 like mine. I don't think she has used the saw long enough to have created a problem so if there is a problem it would have to have been with the saw from day one. I will have to check to know which end is giving her problems but I would think that it's either the bottom one or both. She is primarily cutting 1/8" birch plywood and making Christmas ornaments. She is dabbling in some small intarsia projects too. Nothing large or thick. The problem seemed to manifest itself with the purchase of the Flying Dutchman blades and I'm not certain of the blade size. They might have been smaller than the #5 that I posted. I took a guess on that. It's very possible that they are more in the */0 sizes. I'll have to find out. She is supposed to be bringing some of them over to check how they do in my saw. If ever there is going to be a clamp problem from wear, it would be in my very old type 1 saw that I purchased used. I have not had a problem with mine in any way once I took it all apart and lubed all the brgs.

 

 

R

[OCtoolguy]

Ok, follow up. I just talked to my friend and she tells me it's always the top of the blade, the blade is a #1 28 tpi and it's only the Flying Dutchman blades that do it. So, I am going to try one in my saw to verify. I'll get back to you asap.

 

R

[kmmcrafts]

Just a thought... but if its breaking only on one end and before you even start sawing.. maybe try flipping the blade upside down.. this could rule out if it's the clamp or the blade.. I suppose you could even saw this way but it would be backwards LOL... I would do it in some scrap wood if you are going to try to saw with the blade in upside down, LOL

 

Kevin

[ike]

i  had similar problem with my DW 788 if it wasn't breaking the blade it was slipping. I went to the repair shop and bought a new clamping screw and it cured the problem.

IKE

[OCtoolguy]

Thanks guys, I figured out the problem. She brought her blades over to my place and put one in my saw and had no problem with it. No breaky. But that still didn't explain why the Olsen blades didn't break in her saw. So, I went to her shop and took a look at what she was dealing with. It turns out, and she didn't tell me this until I got there, she told me that her blades also would bend when she would tighten them. I took one look and determined that her saw had never been correctly adjusted when it came out of the factory and she had no idea of that. The anvil screw was recessed about two turns back into the blade holder so when she would tighten the blade it would bend and then break. So, after adjusting the anvil and centering both top and bottom blade holders, all is good. But, it tells me that the Flying Dutchman blades are much harder than the Olsen blades. That's why they cut so good and last so long. Problem solved. So, now she will call them tomorrow and tell them what she found so they can rest easy about the rest of that batch. Thanks again folks,

 

R

[Blaughn]

Good job.  Your next assignment is to tell her to join Scroll Saw Village.  

 

Bruce

[edward]

Last year I had the same problem with FD#1 and #2/0, they broke about half way down on me, Mike told me I  have gotten a bad batch.  edward

[kmmcrafts]

Any time I get a new or used ( new to me ) saw.. I tune it.. while many people think these things are set up at the factory.. and maybe most are? but.. things get missed in factories too.. shift change..person on a line going through personal problems at home and don't have their mind on their work.. whatever the case.. I always check out and tune a saw before I use it.. even if the person before me set it up.. never know if a used saw is being sold.. such as this case.. breaking blades may be the reason the person sold it... because they didn't know any better.. 

[SCROLLSAW703]

I don't have any experience with a dewalt, but a #5 blade is a fairly brittle blade because of its size. But, I still would check the blade for straight up & down, & check the table for level. I've never broke a #5 blade. Make sure your tension is right. But sounds like you've got the issue figured out. Good job!!

[hotshot]

The set screw working back is not unusual, even for new saws.  This may happen again, depending on the saw.  The standard solution to this problem has been to apply threadlocker on the set screw to keep it where you put it.

[amazingkevin]

I considered that what you found to be the problem is what I've had many times before.I'm glad you agree that mikes blades are a cut above the rest too.They are much harder steel and i get plenty of mileage from them unlike other blades that dull quick.if there's another brand of blades harder than Mikes I'd be very much interested in using them.you have to be very careful when using Mikes blades.dragging them on the bottom of your project trying to find the next hole to go in will break them too.

 

Hello all, I've been away for a while but am glad to be back. A close friend who is a gifted scroll sawer is having a problem with Flying Dutchman blades. She bought a bunch of them from The Wooden Teddy Bear. The blades are number 5 if I'm not mistaken and when she inserts the blade into the clamp the end snaps off. The saw is brand new (less than a year) and so she asked me if I ever have this problem. I said no and that she should call those folks and let them know. I think it's a bad batch of blades with bad heat treating. She bought some Olsen blades at Wood craft store and doesn't have the problem with them. Anyway, the people at Wooden Teddy Bear told her it's her saw and that the problem is the clamp screw. If that was the case, wouldn't she have the same problem with the Olsen blades? Anyway, I told her I would check with you folks because I swear I had read of someone else here that had the same problem. Feedback anybody? Please?

 

Ray

 

 

Thanks for your reply Hotshot. She is what I would call a very good beginner. She started out with a cheapo saw and then bought a DW 788 like mine. I don't think she has used the saw long enough to have created a problem so if there is a problem it would have to have been with the saw from day one. I will have to check to know which end is giving her problems but I would think that it's either the bottom one or both. She is primarily cutting 1/8" birch plywood and making Christmas ornaments. She is dabbling in some small intarsia projects too. Nothing large or thick. The problem seemed to manifest itself with the purchase of the Flying Dutchman blades and I'm not certain of the blade size. They might have been smaller than the #5 that I posted. I took a guess on that. It's very possible that they are more in the */0 sizes. I'll have to find out. She is supposed to be bringing some of them over to check how they do in my saw. If ever there is going to be a clamp problem from wear, it would be in my very old type 1 saw that I purchased used. I have not had a problem with mine in any way once I took it all apart and lubed all the brgs.

 

 

R

your a good detective for finding the root cause of scroll saw problem,good for you sir!

 

Ok, follow up. I just talked to my friend and she tells me it's always the top of the blade, the blade is a #1 28 tpi and it's only the Flying Dutchman blades that do it. So, I am going to try one in my saw to verify. I'll get back to you asap.

 

R

It's good you have a life line for interesting correct answers to go to!

 

Thanks guys, I figured out the problem. She brought her blades over to my place and put one in my saw and had no problem with it. No breaky. But that still didn't explain why the Olsen blades didn't break in her saw. So, I went to her shop and took a look at what she was dealing with. It turns out, and she didn't tell me this until I got there, she told me that her blades also would bend when she would tighten them. I took one look and determined that her saw had never been correctly adjusted when it came out of the factory and she had no idea of that. The anvil screw was recessed about two turns back into the blade holder so when she would tighten the blade it would bend and then break. So, after adjusting the anvil and centering both top and bottom blade holders, all is good. But, it tells me that the Flying Dutchman blades are much harder than the Olsen blades. That's why they cut so good and last so long. Problem solved. So, now she will call them tomorrow and tell them what she found so they can rest easy about the rest of that batch. Thanks again folks,

 

R

i love this,you made my day finding the problem!

[amazingkevin]

I considered that what you found to be the problem is what I've had many times before.I'm glad you agree that mikes blades are a cut above the rest too.They are much harder steel and i get plenty of mileage from them unlike other blades that dull quick.if there's another brand of blades harder than Mikes I'd be very much interested in using them.you have to be very careful when using Mikes blades.dragging them on the bottom of your project trying to find the next hole to go in will break them too.

 

Hello all, I've been away for a while but am glad to be back. A close friend who is a gifted scroll sawer is having a problem with Flying Dutchman blades. She bought a bunch of them from The Wooden Teddy Bear. The blades are number 5 if I'm not mistaken and when she inserts the blade into the clamp the end snaps off. The saw is brand new (less than a year) and so she asked me if I ever have this problem. I said no and that she should call those folks and let them know. I think it's a bad batch of blades with bad heat treating. She bought some Olsen blades at Wood craft store and doesn't have the problem with them. Anyway, the people at Wooden Teddy Bear told her it's her saw and that the problem is the clamp screw. If that was the case, wouldn't she have the same problem with the Olsen blades? Anyway, I told her I would check with you folks because I swear I had read of someone else here that had the same problem. Feedback anybody? Please?

 

Ray

 

 

Thanks for your reply Hotshot. She is what I would call a very good beginner. She started out with a cheapo saw and then bought a DW 788 like mine. I don't think she has used the saw long enough to have created a problem so if there is a problem it would have to have been with the saw from day one. I will have to check to know which end is giving her problems but I would think that it's either the bottom one or both. She is primarily cutting 1/8" birch plywood and making Christmas ornaments. She is dabbling in some small intarsia projects too. Nothing large or thick. The problem seemed to manifest itself with the purchase of the Flying Dutchman blades and I'm not certain of the blade size. They might have been smaller than the #5 that I posted. I took a guess on that. It's very possible that they are more in the */0 sizes. I'll have to find out. She is supposed to be bringing some of them over to check how they do in my saw. If ever there is going to be a clamp problem from wear, it would be in my very old type 1 saw that I purchased used. I have not had a problem with mine in any way once I took it all apart and lubed all the brgs.

 

 

R

your a good detective for finding the root cause of scroll saw problem,good for you sir!

 

Ok, follow up. I just talked to my friend and she tells me it's always the top of the blade, the blade is a #1 28 tpi and it's only the Flying Dutchman blades that do it. So, I am going to try one in my saw to verify. I'll get back to you asap.

 

R

It's good you have a life line for interesting correct answers to go to!

 

Thanks guys, I figured out the problem. She brought her blades over to my place and put one in my saw and had no problem with it. No breaky. But that still didn't explain why the Olsen blades didn't break in her saw. So, I went to her shop and took a look at what she was dealing with. It turns out, and she didn't tell me this until I got there, she told me that her blades also would bend when she would tighten them. I took one look and determined that her saw had never been correctly adjusted when it came out of the factory and she had no idea of that. The anvil screw was recessed about two turns back into the blade holder so when she would tighten the blade it would bend and then break. So, after adjusting the anvil and centering both top and bottom blade holders, all is good. But, it tells me that the Flying Dutchman blades are much harder than the Olsen blades. That's why they cut so good and last so long. Problem solved. So, now she will call them tomorrow and tell them what she found so they can rest easy about the rest of that batch. Thanks again folks,

 

R

i love this,you made my day finding the problem!

[heppnerguy]

So glad the problem was so minor and you were able to solve it. I suspected right away the problem was as you mentioned. Knowing it was a #1 blade that it was happening to, would have made me even more convinced of that. However I really enjoy hotshot's answer as he seems to be on top of things and has an amazing knowledge that often brings out the answer to others questions. He also seems to always be there with not just one possibility but, like in this case, several. I for one, am really glad we have him in our family to help us with situations that might otherwise stump us. 

 

Dick

heppnerguy

[CharleyL]

I've had trouble with those set screws backing out very slowly over time from heavy use. I now have Blue Loc-Tite on them and haven't had a problem with them since going with the Blue Lok-Tite.  Just a simple suggestion to consider.

 

Charley