kap279

Hi Len, I had read some concerns on this forum that gave me my initial concern. A local person was selling one and she told me where she bought it from - a local woodworking store similar to woodcraft - so I called them and the salesperson seemed hesitant. He told me it was a gamble to purchase it - he didn't say not to purchase it, but he wasn't sure how easy parts would be to get. He was concerned that since the new model is made in a different factory it may be made differently and with different parts. Someone posted a review on the Home Depot website as well saying he cancelled his order as the company was out of business and he couldn't get parts. I was just worried that they went out of business and if they couldn't manufacture the saw they wouldn't be making the parts. I don't have a lot of knowledge on the size of a lot of these companies but it definitely seems like a niche market so I was concerned that these parts wouldn't me made by aftermarket companies or other companies making similar saws if necessary. It seemed that seyco got burned by EX a little bit too so I wasn't sure if he would continue to have the parts. I'm glad you and others are confident in this company and the parts - it definitely puts my mind at ease!

Once again, thanks to everyone for all the insight. You definitely made me feel better about going ahead with the EX-21. I went ahead and picked it up tonight - it was definitely seldomly used. The previous owner still had the manual, all the paperwork, tags, and even the box it came in. Also got the two packs of blades they had from their original purchase of the saw (now I need to really research what type of blades to purchase). Even though it was definitely not used much it made a few funny noises that had me slightly concerned initially. The first noise was the lower blade mount hitting the lower blade guard when running at a higher blade speed. I was able to bend/push the lower blade guard up toward the table and it no longer hit it. The other noise had me more concerned, but after checking this forum I was able to find the answer in about 30 seconds from a post titled "excalibur 21 blade problems" which linked me to an excalibur tune up section on scrollsaws.com. I was getting a lot of vibration/noise when running at a high blade speed. I could get to about 75% speed and the saw would vibrate a lot. I ended up taking the cover off the scroll saw that was on the back side of the motor, modified an 8mm wrench per the directions, and tightened a screw. That solved the problem - runs as smooth as can be with no sound now. Much smoother and quieter than I could have imagined. meflick: I really didn't mean to disparage the seyco at all - that wasn't my intention as I'm sure a lot of people really like them. It seemed as though a lot of people bought them as soon as they came out. You were correct though - my concerns were specifically in regards to some of the initial reviews I had read and the review on youtube from Steve Good where I was able to see how some of the parts worked/were designed. I've never spoken with Ray from Seyco, but from all accounts he seems like the exact sort of person that I would want to purchase a product from and would be a big reason I would purchase a seyco. The following were my concerns and why (keep in mind these were my concerns only from my research and not actually using the saw). I just want to give you an idea of what my concerns were as you seemed genuinely curious. You have real world time with the saw where you can definitely provide some solid knowledge on the two saws. I know you like the seyco more than the EX but I would be very interested to know what you prefer and why between the saws based on the areas that gave me hesitation. Somewhat. He really seemed to like the saw in the review I watched so he himself didn't necessarily raise my concerns. Having not gone back and rewatched it I'll have to go by memory here. The part of the saw that most disappointed me in the video was the blade tilt controls and the fact that it wouldn't tilt to a 45 degree angle. Steve did a good job of conveying that the 38 degree tilt was enough and there really wouldn't be many applications where you would need more tilt, but it felt a little like the saw went backward from the previous design (excalibur). I didn't understand why the saw couldn't have been designed in a way that a 45 degree tilt would be possible since it had already been done. My experience with innovation is that you want to make the next product at least equal in features to the last and preferably more advanced. I initially thought the digital angle reader was neat, but I didn't like the delay for the numbers to change when tilting the table. Part of my apprehension with this may be in the fact that I have often used a digital miter finder at work and as close as it is to accurate I can also put it on the same angle and have readings a couple of tenths apart so I'm never 100% confident in the reading. I'll check an angle multiple times and if they're different readings I will average them to get my angle. Another small issue is that at my work we do a lot of metal fabrication at our facility and I know that when metals are welded or bolted together they can have imperfections, crowns, low spots, etc. I don't recall if the Seyco was a cast arm on top or bolted/welded steel, but I just imagined this digital reader sitting on an un-level piece of steel where the readout wouldn't be consistent if it wasn't always set in the exact same location, if there was some weld spatter on the ledge, if some debris got under the reader. I understand that you have to zero it out when you have the blade level, but if my readout was always +/- .01" it would irritate me. I would want it at "0" when the blade was level (it may normally be at zero, I just noticed in the video that it was initially a tenth over, he zeroed it out, and it was then a tenth under). I completely understand that the variance in the readout is very minimal and most likely doesn't matter 99.9% of the time but then I wonder why have it which brings me to the blade tilt controls. When watching Steve Good explain how he liked the blade tilt controls on the seyco better than the rack & pinion style I didn't have a reference point but I knew that I didn't particularly like the blade tilt controls I saw. After the video I went and researched the controls on other saws that had the numbers etched in metal where you just turn the knob to tilt the saw. It just seemed like a more finished product with the rack and pinion and an area where the seyco kind of skimped a little bit. To me, the free floating head seemed like it would be harder to get to a certain angle and then harder to keep at that angle when tightening the knob. It probably is a small issue to most but a matter of fit and finish for me. I did like the crosshair style magnetic pad when watching the video and thought it was a really neat feature. I was quite disappointed when I later learned through various forums that there was a rectangular slot cut in the table that for some would even become an issue for the magnetic top. Once again, it seemed like this slot was put there out of necessity where a little more thought and time could have eliminated the need for the slot completely. It just seemed counterintuitive that when reading forums and watching videos people were very concerned about the size of the hole the blade goes through in the table as it may catch material and then a giant hole was intentionally placed in the center of a table on a high end saw. It seemed like the target audience for this saw would be especially particular about this sort of thing. I had read a few posts about people replacing the table or having a custom machined top put on their seyco due to their disdain for the magnetic top. I'd read of some who had regret of selling a saw they owned to purchase their seyco and ultimately being somewhat disappointed - maybe it was initial buyers remorse and after using it for awhile they became more accustomed to it and appreciated it more. Maybe it was like they sold their first car and wished they hadn't - nothing will ever be as nice. I had read about the issues with the stand but had heard that Steve Good had the assembly video you referenced so that wasn't a huge concern to me. This is very good news! All of the reasons I listed above have absolutely nothing to do with me personally using the seyco scroll saw and in fact the first scroll saw I ever used was my EX tonight. I am the type of person who researches for a ridiculous amount of time prior to making a purchase like this and to be quite honest I can be a perfectionist to a fault. The information I got was what I interpreted from Steve Good's initial review and the multitude of forums I read on the subject. I will say that if I would have found a used seyco for a deal and the EX was full price I wouldn't have hesitated to purchase the seyco because at that point it would have definitely been a great value for me. I understand that what I wrote above may seem overly critical, but this is coming from a person who has never gotten into this hobby before, started researching, and then came to a conclusion based on forums, videos, product websites, features, marketing, etc. I hope this isn't viewed as a newbie who thinks he knows it all or that I'm bashing a particular brand as that is the last thing I want to do - these were all first glance items of interest to me that led me to research other brands. I am positive that the Seyco saw is a fantastic cutting saw which would definitely be of the number one concern. I maybe shouldn't have included the remark about seyco in my initial post - I didn't even think of it as a negative on the overall product itself, but moreso on the specific concerns with the stand, table, magnetic top feedback I'd read. I had debated on how to reply to you as I didn't want to come off as overly negative about the seyco but I really wanted to let you know what helped me form my thought process. I'm excited to hear your thoughts on the saw in regards to the concerns I had and I would definitely defer to you on the seyco vs excalibur as you own and use both of them. You know the ins and outs a lot more than I do!

Thank you everyone for your responses - I really appreciate it! I'm going to go ahead with the used EX-21. I'm glad I came upon this website and forum as well...I began this journey watching a video of Steve Goode's on youtube regarding the Porter Cable with stand from Lowes for $199.00 and really decided that simpler blade changes were a necessity to get the most joy out of a saw like this and continue to use it. That led to a deep dive into various brands, user experiences, etc. It seemed like a lot of people seem to really like the Excalibur and the biggest downfall of it was the production issues. My thought is that in the grand scheme of things a higher end scroll saw isn't that large of a price jump up from one to the next and it's easier to convince my wife one time that I need a scroll saw instead of going through a future conversation that the perfectly good scroll saw I bought last year has to be replaced because... My experience is that it's hard enough to convince her once let alone go through the process again. I'm also a part owner of a business where we've purchased tools in the past that have been undersized for our needs and have had to be replaced later on - sometimes it was all we could afford at the time, got us through, and was a good stop gap but other times it was more about saving a dollar or two. A lot of times it just ends up costing more in the long run. The Hegner is still a tempting add on buy at the price point just to have around and from all user accounts they seem indestructible. I think since I'm just getting started with this hobby I will stick to learning the ins and outs of one saw for the time being. In regards to the location of member Iggy, I am located in Wisconsin (a lot of your locations sound pretty nice right about now weather-wise) so a little far away from him but thank you for the suggestion. The only additional thing I will add and that did affect my decision a little bit is that many have stated Home Depot has some discounts available that I am not eligible for. Home Depot does, however, price match (not sure if they meet and beat prices anymore) and they also match competitor coupons. In my area we have Menards as a direct competitor. They tend to run 11% off sales at least once a month - often enough that if you buy something at regular price you now feel like you overpaid. It's not actually 11% off the price of the cost of goods, but rather an in store rebate. A lot of midwestern Home Depot location will match this 11% and they have an online site for submitting that is as follows: https://www.homedepotrebates11percent.com/#/home It takes awhile, but as long as you purchased a product during the time frame of a Menard's 11% sale you will get a gift card mailed to you. Based on the rebate website it does appear that the purchases need to take place in a store and not online so my grand thought of purchasing a new EX-21 for $799.99 and getting an 11% gift card would probably not work. Anyway, thank you everyone for the responses - I read and appreciated the insight each of them offered. Have a great day!

It does seem like a good deal - is there still concern over replacement parts with the excalibur or would you not let that affect your decision to purchase?

Hello all, I started looking into scroll sawing recently and have been searching various online communities for answers, tips, etc. Well, I'm looking to purchase a scroll saw and have narrowed it down to some options in my area. I can purchase the Excalibur 21 new from Home Depot for $800 with stand and foot pedal, the King Industrial 30 from Woodcraft for $900 (no stand), or I've located a couple of used options. The first is a one year old barely used Excalibur 21 with stand and foot pedal for $580, the second is a used RBI Hawk 226 VS Precision Scroll Saw with stand (not sure about foot pedal) for $600 - not sure of the age, and the third is a ten year old or so 18" Hegner Scroll Saw for $240. I've eliminated the Seyco due to some reviews/first impressions I've read on these chatrooms and I've eliminated the Dewalt because I figure for close to the same price I can get saws that seem to be considered higher quality. My first choice is the Excalibur, but I'm concerned about replacement parts. I spoke with someone at a local woodworkers store and the salesperson said what others have. The factory that manufactured the saws no longer does so for Excalibur. They've gotten a new factory but are still waiting for the saws to arrive. They're not sure if the saws will be the exact same, use the same parts, etc. I was told that the first run of a new product is generally where the problems will be found and have to be worked out (seems legitimate due to some of the things I've read about the Seyco's). If I knew replacement parts weren't an issue I think this would be a no brainer. I think the Hawk would be my second choice. Made in the USA is always a benefit. I've read these saws are a slower cutting saw (not sure if I would ever notice the difference because I haven't really used others). The price seems pretty good on the used model. The Hegner is 10 years old which doesn't seem like a big deal from what I've read. It seems the design has changed minimally. My concern is that I've read about blades breaking on these and I know little about them. My other concern is just the overall appearance of the machine. It seem that when new these machines are the most expensive, but they also look the most dated - this may not matter, but it seems when machines look a little more cutting edge they are. Maybe when machines look nicer there are more problems with them, I don't know. $240 for this saw seems like the best price by far but not sure what the 10 year age means. The King Industrial is the same as the Excalibur from what I can tell, but I've heard about it being from a Canadian company - similar to a Harbor Freight - and that concerns me with getting replacement parts as well. Woodcraft sells it, but I'm not sure how helpful they would be with this saw. Anyway, just looking for some insight as I'm looking to purchase one of these soon. Any help is appreciated - Thank you!