Antikythera mechanism!?!

[Mechanism Man]

Good evening ladies and gents,

 

I've just found your fantastic forum do thought that it would be a great place to share this little project of mine which involves lots and lots of gears and a scroll saw to cut them, and is based on a machine that spent more than 2000 years beneath the sea... and there are no plans... what could possibly go wrong?

 

After several years of chewing over it, researching and planning, I'm finally going to build a wooden geared version of the Antikythera Mechanism.

 

For those not familiar with it, it's the 2100 year old gear driven shoe box sized machine that was discovered in very bad condition within a shipwreck off Greece in 1900. Since that time researchers have discovered that it could predict planetary movements (including retrograde motion where the planets appear to move backwards in the sky), eclipses, passage of time, moon phases, and all with an accuracy that in some cases has less than a 1° error over a period of 500 years... and it pre-dates the first gear driven clock by over 1000 years. In other words, it's pretty darned clever.

 

Latest research has put the gear count inside the machine at something in the region of sixty, and it would have predicted the motions of all the planets out to Saturn with a really neat and elegant system of gear trains.

 

It is also more or less unique in that it represents what can be seen looking out from Earth - so Earth itself is not featured on the machine - but in a lot of ways it makes it a much more useful device than a standard orrery, and way more complicated...

 

So, my plan is to build a version of this incredible machine and incorporate all the latest thinking on the gear trains which nobody has yet done in a physical machine, all the machines so far built are modeled on earlier thinking. And I'm going to do it all with hand cut wooden gearing - not a laser or CNC machine in sight...

 

The machine will end up about one and a half times bigger than the original, but it's still quite small considering what it will eventually do.

 

I've already made a start, and when I get my Photobucket account woken up and dusted down I'll post some photos of the first unit test assembled.

 

Wish me luck folks, I think that I may need it...

 

Dave.

[amazingkevin]

Now you've got my full attention with this contraption so to speak.Antikythera mechanism working model.mov - YouTube

[Mechanism Man]

Yes, that'd be the machine then!

Micheal Wrights version in the video is the best known of the replicas by far - of which there are currently only about four or five. However, they all use earlier thinking for the gear trains that power the pointers for the planets - and not all the replicas even include the planets, so my version will be a little bit unique in that it will include the latest research for the part of the machine that runs the planet pointers. So far this bit has only been computer modelled rather than physically built, so it'll be nice to be the first for a change (if I can pull it off...).

The machine in the video is pure genius though, and the fella who built it is much brighter than I in that he spent years studying the original fragments and figuring out his own method of making it work. The new gear trains though, result in just the same output motions but are much simpler, more elegant, and seemingly more in keeping with the remaining portion of the original machine (but still guess work to a point, since this chunk of the machine is missing, but very clever guess work none the less!).

Anyhow, enough waffling and time for some photos! The following pics show the point that I'm up to now, plus a couple of in progress shots.

All comments and criticism gratefully received!

 

 

 

 

 

[amazingkevin]

What an under taking this has been for you,make no mistake about it thereis none,Fabulous cutting skills here,Incredable talent, a real brainiack to try a project like this.You will go down in riply's believe it or not when they get hold of this project your doing.Let us know what type wood an saw blades and scroll saw your useing to acheive the miraculous results your produceing.I am amazed at your "works in progress " here.I'm grinding  my teeth thinking about all thats intailed doing a project like this.You are gung ho too  about it .Keep posting thanks,You really strike up the band when you do something!

[Scrolling Steve]

Wow..just WOW!

[bobscroll]

Hello David, Quite a project you are undertaking, I think I saw the program on T.V.

about what you are talking about, Them guy's back then must have been very

brainy! to build something like that.

Thanks for the photo's Bob   

[Phantom Scroller]

Dave a big WELCOME. That's some intro, looking forward to seeing more of your work. Where are you in the UK?. Roly 

[Mechanism Man]

Wow, thanks for all the kind comments! I'll do my best to make regular updates, but I have a couple of other projects on the go at the same time, so I'll be hitting this one in between the other two. Unfortunately, they are for specific people, so I can't really ignore them. Darn...

As for my saw Kevin, it's a bog standard Rexon with a speed controller (the only 'must have' feature when I'm buying one of these beasties). The blades I use are, well, blades... They are plain end and about 18 tpi, I tend to buy whatever is available at the local DIY shop at the time - I just adjust my cut rate to suit I guess. I've never been one for branded anything and tend to take the view that it makes very little difference having great kit if the bloke or girl using it has no skill, but by the same token most cheap tools have the ability to produce good work if you just take the time to practice and make the appropriate allowances. I basically can't afford anything better at the moment, so I make do, and after almost 20 years of making do I feel no immediate need to trade up to a Hegner which would do exactly the same job (but not always with a speed controller!?!), and at three times the price. One day though, one day...

I'm based in Norfolk Roly, I came here from Devon with the RAF in 1990 to load bombs and guns onto Tornados and never escaped - I miss the hills!

[amazingkevin]

You've been there done that!

[LarryEA]

Well beyond my desire and imagination. Though I do wish you well and success.

Actually I believe you will succeed in accomplishing the assembly of all parts.

Beyond that, you let us know.

[Mechanism Man]

Well after having a good play with the machine as it stands, I've come to the conclusion that although the gear work is all fine, the frames are just not good enough.

Unfortunately, when I first fit the gearing to the frame work, I got myself very confused as to which gear went where and so drilled a few holes that should never have been drilled. I could fill these, but they will always be visible, and if the jobs worth doing...

More important than that though, I also didn't leave enough material to fit decent size spacer poles, my preference is for 6 mm wooden dowels, rather than the 3mm metal rods currently fitted which was all I had room for at the time - changing them will make fixing everything together so much easier.

Lastly, the purpose of the gear teeth running around the outside of the bottom frame is to provide the main input drive for the entire machine via the winding handle. I've decided to lose this in favour of a smaller gear that will be driven by a worm gear - both to be fitted later - so all three new frames can have smooth edges.

So while it's still at a relatively early stage in the build I have opted to cut three new frames and re-fit the existing gearing to them instead, it's a bit of re-work that's worth doing I think.

I'll hopefully have this done by the end of today.

 

[kenf]

Dave

Intriguing

kenf

North Walerds

[Mechanism Man]

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Edited November 4, 2014 by Mechanism Man

[oldhudson]

I'll be following along. I made a weight driven wooden gear clock last year. It keeps quite good time it's only off about a minute in 24 hours. Of course I was working from plans in a magazine. I offered some posts on the build.

 

http://www.scrollsawvillage.com/topic/7800-wooden-gear-clock/?hl=%2Bwooden+%2Bgear+%2Bclock

 

I found cutting gears very meditative. I'd have a beer and put on some nice music and just scroll along. Good luck!

 

 

[Mechanism Man]

I've never actually built a clock, but will get around to having a go one of these days - the more gears the better!

Your clock looks fantastic. I had already spotted the thread and had a little look through it, it's nice to know that I'm not the only one who actually enjoys a bit of gear cutting.

I've built a lot of wooden orreries too, and each one of those can have up to 60 gears, so I've had a lot of practice getting it right!

[whirldworks]

Holy cow! Very impressive

[Mechanism Man]

Hi folks,

Hmm... 2017 and I'm still working on the same project - I really think I need to get this finished.

So, after almost two years of graft I am now at the stage where I have a fully working prototype, and I'm now almost finished building the Mark II version which I've got to say is looking half good!

The prototype was really just to prove that the gear trains worked properly, and against all the odds they worked near perfectly. Unfortunately I didn't build it big enough to include all the larger dials and pointers that the original machine had so I couldn't really finish this one, hence the need for MK II!

Life has been busy so I'm limited to the odd hour here and there, but the past 6 months has seen me redesigning some components (like the frames), and cutting everything out ready for assembly, and that's where I an now, just starting to put it all together.

Anyhow, below are some photos of the original running prototype, and the kit of parts that I've made for the new one. I think that my scroll saw needs a holiday.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Happy scrolling everyone.

Dave.

:-)

[DWSUDEKUM]

Dave what a wonderful project you took on.  Love what you have done to date.  Thank you for sharing this work of art with us.

 

DW

[Scrappile]

Looking great!!!

[meflick]

Impressive but hey - its not 2017 YET.  Still about 3 months to go.    Please don't count out the last of 2016 just yet - I got way too much I gotta due before then! 

 

Seriously - a beautiful l piece of artwork there.  Thanks for sharing photos.

[Mechanism Man]

Hmm, still 2016 you say? Good point, well made - a little finger trouble on the old key board me thinks, or maybe I just need to get out more...

Thanks for the kind comment though - it's much appreciated.

:-)

[TripleJScroller]

What an awesome project!  It's looking great so far and I'm fascinated by it.  Keep us updated on your progress for sure.

[Falcon]

Welcome you are one fine artist! Great job looking forward to seeing it finished and maybe a video of it running.

[Mechanism Man]

Yes, I'll certainly post a video when it's done. :-)

It's still not finished by a long shot - but it's now in more or less one piece and it works! Happiness is 57 spinning wooden gears. Almost ready to start predicting an eclipse or two!

 

 

 

[meflick]

Hmm, still 2016 you say? Good point, well made - a little finger trouble on the old key board me thinks, or maybe I just need to get out more...

Thanks for the kind comment though - it's much appreciated.

:-)

 

No worries - I have "fat fingers" too that can get in the way of my typing - especially if I am trying to do it on my phone or iPad!   Much prefer the full size keyboard on my computer but even then -  I can go back and reread an older post I made and see a glaring typo and wonder how in the world I missed that! 

 

WOW - is that a piece of hard work - 57 spinning working gears!  That is a feat in and of its self!  Definitely not for the faint of heart (like me when it comes to my wood cutting and fitting skills!)  Look forward to seeing it when you have it completed. Thanks for sharing your "in progress" work here for us to admire.