scrollntole Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 I've become disenchanted with solid quarter inch thick Red Oak because of warpage and inability to flatten it consistently. So I tried some Oak plywood instead. No warpage; cutting seemed just fine; the surface looks good, less expensive. However I use Teak Oil to finish it. The surface looked good but the edge did not. The inner ply is MDF and the teak oil is sucked in to the ply and does not have the same "look" as the surface. I'm further disappointed. My current thoughts are to stick with solid wood - Ask is my favorite because of the grain - and to avoid oak altogether. Anyone have any experience or recommendations thoughts on this? Thanks, Vin OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Scroller Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 A picture would help. Not all plywood is mdf core. Using a wood core plywood may help some but the inside cuts surfaces will never look exactly the same as the surface. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 I too have tried oak plywood on a certain project and just was so disappointed and I even tried it again and used a different stain. At first I thought I liked it but the more I looked at it I came to not like it. So I scrapped the projects and to this day it sits unfinished. What hurt was the fact it was alot of cutting in 4 pieces because I stacked 2 each time. I even had splintering on some small cuts. There was some one here that made this same project and theirs looked nice. It was a religious plaque of Jesus The Light of The World. My opinion is if using plywood the only good looking stuff is good quality Baltic Birch or Finnish Birch. As far as suggestions go if the board is warping use a backer of a less warping wood. Mahogany does not warp much at all. Any wood with wild grain or heavy grain will warp. Straight grain wood will have a tendency to not warp as much. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 Quarter sawn Oak doesn't warp nearly as bad if your stuck on using oak... Also when purchasing lumber look at the grain.. and select lumber with tighter grain lines.. as they tend to keep straight a little better.. This is a big reason I do make a lot of my stuff from plywood.. And if I'm buying Oak.. I only buy quarter sawn... If I have a piece of oak that's not quarter sawn it's because if was free wood from my brother or uncles mill.. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 Lets not downplay oak folks. I have been using oak for over 35 years and most my projects are from oak. So lets get real here. Alot depends on what you are making. How thin are you using and is it a stand alone or is it backed up Some of the best looking oak is flat sawn and not quartersawn at all. That is boring. Now my projects are 3/8 to 3/4 " thick so that helps Many are fret sawn so that takes out the warping too. You relive the stress when it is used for fret sawing. Vin never did say what he is using 1/4" hardwood for and how large the project is either so there maybe answers to his misuse of it if we knew. I have shown many examples of my projects here and to date not one has ever warped. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 Not had too much problems with thicker pieces of Oak.. and I make a few projects from it.. not a big fan of cutting it.. the smell to me stinks.. ( not that I try to sniff up the dust and always wear a mask ) but I do like the look it gives.. Never had any luck with 1/8 - 3/8 thick though .. in some cases even 1/2 inch.. My go to wood is Cherry.. If it warps in the thin stuff I typically cut it up small enough to make ornaments out of it to salvage the wood if I can... Never said it's crap wood really.. just not my top choice to cut.. Cuts nice too.. just smells and warps easily.. unless you get to pick and choose the boards.. A lot goes into lumber warpage.. including how it's stacked, dried etc.. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhudson Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 I think mdf core plywood is really for cabinet work and not practical or intended for most scroll or fret work projects. And any plywood: mdf core, veneer core, classic core or baltic birch will have some finishing issues on the edge. Here's a practical application of mdf core plywood (see pics). The drawer fronts along with the rails and stiles are solid wood. The door panels are 1/4" mdf core plywood. I built these about 6 years ago. I think the finish of the solid and plywood are identical. And if you consider the cost and time in building the entire door from solid wood, I'd still be planing and gluing up wood. I think (and I'm pretty sure others agree) poplar is a pretty good choice for scrolling. Readily available, reasonably priced, cuts well, accepts paint or stain (with some effort) and glues well. And while oak had gotten attention in this thread I'll add my 2¢. I've used red oak on several projects and what I like least is the open grain. To get a really nice finish you must use some kind of grain filler. Years ago I used Watco and wet sanded to fill the surface grain. Now my process is to use Timbermate. Doesn't matter it's always an extra step. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, oldhudson said: I think mdf core plywood is really for cabinet work and not practical or intended for most scroll or fret work projects. And any plywood: mdf core, veneer core, classic core or baltic birch will have some finishing issues on the edge. Here's a practical application of mdf core plywood (see pics). The drawer fronts along with the rails and stiles are solid wood. The door panels are 1/4" mdf core plywood. I built these about 6 years ago. I think the finish of the solid and plywood are identical. And if you consider the cost and time in building the entire door from solid wood, I'd still be planing and gluing up wood. I think (and I'm pretty sure others agree) poplar is a pretty good choice for scrolling. Readily available, reasonably priced, cuts well, accepts paint or stain (with some effort) and glues well. And while oak had gotten attention in this thread I'll add my 2¢. I've used red oak on several projects and what I like least is the open grain. To get a really nice finish you must use some kind of grain filler. Years ago I used Watco and wet sanded to fill the surface grain. Now my process is to use Timbermate. Doesn't matter it's always an extra step. What is "timbermate"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhudson Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 30 minutes ago, octoolguy said: What is "timbermate"? Timbermate is a water based grain filler. Here's link: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=timbermate+wood+filler&crid=1XZ60MSN0YN0H&sprefix=timberma%2Caps%2C162&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_8 I used it on a chair repair I did, posted pics here. There are a number of YouTube videos on using it as a filler. Most are from folks who make guitars. The fact that it's water based is great. It accepts stain much better than oil based fillers. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Monk Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 I use some MDF core oak plywood, stain the backer and finish with lacquer. I like it because the edge of the MDF core matches the backer. kmmcrafts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 That's gorgeous Dave! Dave Monk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 Not sure what type finish you are going after Berry on oak but man all I do is sand to 220 grit and use Watco Danish oil and never fill in grains. That is for furniture grade projects not scrolling projects in my eyes. I get a nice smooth low luster look and feel and have many people comment on the finish of my projects. Poplar is a good painting wood. Everyone has their favorites and their ways of finishing. No right or wrong ways. To me oak is my favorite wood to work with. Easy to scroll and work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill WIlson Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 I've never noticed red oak being inherently prone to warping or cupping. I use a fair amount of it, sometimes planed down to as thin as 3/16" thick. I have a bunch of shorts in my shop right now, planed to various thicknesses 3/8" & under. It's a mixture of QS and flat sawn and has been leaning in a corner of my shop for many months. It's all still flat. I know, because I had to move it all the other day to get at something behind it. Wood will warp or cup for a number of different reasons, from the way it's sawn, to the way it's dried, milled and finished. On top of that, some trees are just more prone to internal stresses due to how and where they grew, regardless of species. JTTHECLOCKMAN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis123 Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 I used a piece of MDF core oak plywood that a friend had given me for a fretwork 'Forest Wren Box' pattern I had purchased from a catalog, I stained it with a dark walnut stain and it turned out beautifully. As a result, I went out a bought a full sheet of the stuff. Any time I'm doing a piece that I intend to stain with a dark color, it has become my first choice for material. Sometimes using a lighter stain gives an attractive contrast to the edges. In case you can't tell, I like the stuff. Dennnis kmmcrafts and JTTHECLOCKMAN 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 I agree with Bill. I too have sawn and planed down oak boards to 1/8" and up to 3/8" without warping. I have a large clock project that I started some 10 years ago and never did get back to it and many of the pieces are 3/16" thick and are cut out and are still not warped. I know this because I moved this project the other day to get at some other wood underneath it. I really need to finish that project. Not sure where the plans are any more. I may have to wing it. I have quite a few projects never finished. Just lost interest in them mid way. I get bored quickly. Those people that do the same things over and over are a different breed in my mind. kmmcrafts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 17 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said: I agree with Bill. I too have sawn and planed down oak boards to 1/8" and up to 3/8" without warping. I have a large clock project that I started some 10 years ago and never did get back to it and many of the pieces are 3/16" thick and are cut out and are still not warped. I know this because I moved this project the other day to get at some other wood underneath it. I really need to finish that project. Not sure where the plans are any more. I may have to wing it. I have quite a few projects never finished. Just lost interest in them mid way. I get bored quickly. Those people that do the same things over and over are a different breed in my mind. So you can say you have many PHD's... Me too.. LOL.. My wife was talking to my kids ( mainly about Doctors but education and explaining different degrees ) about PHD's .. I piped up and said I have several PHD's The kids looked at me kinda funny and the wife had a slight puzzled look on her face wondering where the heck I was going to go with this one.. Once I explained myself.. they all just smiled and shook their heads.. Gotta keep them all on their toes.. LOL JTTHECLOCKMAN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said: So you can say you have many PHD's... Me too.. LOL.. My wife was talking to my kids ( mainly about Doctors but education and explaining different degrees ) about PHD's .. I piped up and said I have several PHD's The kids looked at me kinda funny and the wife had a slight puzzled look on her face wondering where the heck I was going to go with this one.. Once I explained myself.. they all just smiled and shook their heads.. Gotta keep them all on their toes.. LOL Projects Half Done. Many is not even close. I also turn pens and you should see those laying around. kmmcrafts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry1939 Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 I use a lot of 1/4" solid oak. Our Lowe's oak is not worth looking at. 2 Menards, each about 15 miles away. The one in the larger city has a somewhat better quality. If I need 3 boards, will typically sort through 20 and buy only 1. Whenever I get near a Menards, I just buy some to hoard for later. HOWEVER, I only buy 1/4/X 1 1/2 and glue them together. That eliminates the cupping problem you have trying to find something wider. Just be sure to carefully align the grain when gluing. Now, even I have trouble finding the glue joints on a finished piece. jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrollntole Posted March 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 Good to read all the responses - thanks everyone for taking the time. To answer a couple questions and to be more thorough: * The red oak I've bought has always been 1/4 in thick. Typical size is 24 in by 8 in or 10 in wide. * I've never tried quarter sawn - I'll have to check price on that. And I've never tried to glue up pieces of less width. * pictures below are of two projects: 1. A box, a Sue Mey design, and I could just never get the top to stay flat. But at least I have the box! size is about 8 by 10; the top had a tab handle to lift it. 2. Not the best example, but I used a small piece of oak ply for the base of the box. You can see how the edge looks after applying Teak Oil finish. Again, thanks everyone for your input. Vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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