Cheryl

[Cheryl Davis]

Looking for help. I have been using my dad's very old craftsman scroll saw to make garden signs. It has burned up to the point of no repair. There is someone in my area selling a RBI Hawk 226 VS for $350. He does not know the age of the saw so I called and emailed the company with no reply. The serial # is 13614, would anybody know if this is worth the purchase, he claims it runs well. Pictures look like it is in very good condition but since I don't know much about purchasing tools I was looking for help. Thanks, Cheryl

Edited January 8, 2020 by Cheryl Davis
misspell word

[OCtoolguy]

The saw you have pictured appears to be a pretty nice one and that price is a fair price. I have a 2001 226VS Ultra that I pretty much stole for $250. They are a big saw with that 26" neck area. I always looks first at the on/off switch and if it has the variable speed dial. That gives me an idea of it's age. If I recall, my saw's serial number starts in the 12xxx area so that would make your saw newer. What you want to do is try it to see how well it runs and cuts. They do take some getting used to because of the way they tension. There is a very good video on the Bushton Mfg. website that explains how to do most everything on that saw. The most important thing to look at is at the back of the saw where all the tension adjusting hardware is. There is an aluminum wedge that sit's in a V shaped groove. Check to see that the wedge is still in good shape with little wear. Also, there is a nylon washer that sits on top of that wedge. Make sure it is still there and not worn out or missing. They did have problems with some of the earlier saws that had the Fasco branded motor but if that saw is newer than mine, you would be safe there. At that price and in decent condition, I'd snap it up. The original company that started building those saws has gone through about 3-4 changes. Bushton is the latest owner/mfgr. They are primarily farmers and the saw business is a sideline so they aren't very responsive at times. Especially at harvest time but they do return calls and emails at their convenience. There have been many discussions here on SSV regarding the company but the bottom line is, they are a great saw that requires very little in the way of maintenance. Just some lubrication mostly in a couple of areas. If you buy the saw, you can come on here and ask for help and get a lot from many members who own and use the Hawk saw. Best of luck in getting it.

To add , if you do buy the saw, remember to ask for all the pieces and parts that came with it. Blade holders, spare blades, manual, wrenches. Anything that they can provide will be helpful. Especially the blade holders.

Edited January 8, 2020 by octoolguy

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Over a $1200 saw new so that is a steal. If it runs well and has the square blade holders which I believe it does then grab it. Just be warned this is a large saw. The 30" excalibur  saw is the only larger saw on the market. It needs to sit on a solid floor surface and be level. If you do buy it it is good idea to loosen leg bolts and let sit in place and then tighten to take tension out of the stand. Parts are another thing because the new company is a pain to deal with and i won';t go into that again. Got my hand slapped for voicing my opinion on them here. Looks in great shape. I would buy it with no problem.

[OCtoolguy]

7 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Over a $1200 saw new so that is a steal. If it runs well and has the square blade holders which I believe it does then grab it. Just be warned this is a large saw. The 30" excalibur  saw is the only larger saw on the market. It needs to sit on a solid floor surface and be level. If you do buy it it is good idea to loosen leg bolts and let sit in place and then tighten to take tension out of the stand. Parts are another thing because the new company is a pain to deal with and i won';t go into that again. Got my hand slapped for voicing my opinion on them here. Looks in great shape. I would buy it with no problem.

Oh, go ahead JT, tell us what you really think. I love a good controversy.

 

[Cheryl Davis]

21 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

The saw you have pictured appears to be a pretty nice one and that price is a fair price. I have a 2001 226VS Ultra that I pretty much stole for $250. They are a big saw with that 26" neck area. I always looks first at the on/off switch and if it has the variable speed dial. That gives me an idea of it's age. If I recall, my saw's serial number starts in the 12xxx area so that would make your saw newer. What you want to do is try it to see how well it runs and cuts. They do take some getting used to because of the way they tension. There is a very good video on the Bushton Mfg. website that explains how to do most everything on that saw. The most important thing to look at is at the back of the saw where all the tension adjusting hardware is. There is an aluminum wedge that sit's in a V shaped groove. Check to see that the wedge is still in good shape with little wear. Also, there is a nylon washer that sits on top of that wedge. Make sure it is still there and not worn out or missing. They did have problems with some of the earlier saws that had the Fasco branded motor but if that saw is newer than mine, you would be safe there. At that price and in decent condition, I'd snap it up. The original company that started building those saws has gone through about 3-4 changes. Bushton is the latest owner/mfgr. They are primarily farmers and the saw business is a sideline so they aren't very responsive at times. Especially at harvest time but they do return calls and emails at their convenience. There have been many discussions here on SSV regarding the company but the bottom line is, they are a great saw that requires very little in the way of maintenance. Just some lubrication mostly in a couple of areas. If you buy the saw, you can come on here and ask for help and get a lot from many members who own and use the Hawk saw. Best of luck in getting it.

To add , if you do buy the saw, remember to ask for all the pieces and parts that came with it. Blade holders, spare blades, manual, wrenches. Anything that they can provide will be helpful. Especially the blade holders.

Thank you so much for the information on what to look for. 

[Cheryl Davis]

I really appreciate both of your help on what I am to look for. I am recently retired and want to get more into this hobby I enjoy. I hope I can handle this monster, I did tackled the table saw, miter saw, router plus more so I'm sure I can do it. May be asking for your expertise in the future on tips to use. Thanks again, Cheryl....The Cajun Grandma

Edited January 8, 2020 by Cheryl Davis

[OCtoolguy]

10 minutes ago, Cheryl Davis said:

I really appreciate both of your help on what I am to look for. I am recently retired and want to get more into this hobby I enjoy. I hope I can handle this monster, I did tackled the table saw, miter saw, router plus more so I'm sure I can do it. May be asking for your expertise in the future on tips to use. Thanks again, Cheryl....The Cajun Grandma

It's a big saw in that it takes up a bit more space on the floor but the rest of it is all in your perspective of what is too big. The saw's capacity is huge. I know I'll never be able to use it all but it still makes tiny stuff too. I hope you get it and love it. There are a few users here on SSV that would let their mates go rather than their Hawk saws. Well, maybe not but you know what I mean. You signature says "cajun" so I take it you're in Louisiana somewhere? Go into your profile and fill in the blanks so we know a bit more about your location. It can be of help when answering questions about where to, and so on. It sounds like you have a well equipped shop.

 

[OCtoolguy]

Cheryl, this page is from the Bushton website. It has some great pics of how the saw works and toward the bottom there are a couple of pics of that pivot point that I was referring to to check for wear. Also something that I spotted in the pics you first posted is that they have taken the time to add the leg supports and a shelf to the saw. That's something that I think is a really good thing. I have been going to add that to my saw. It is a handy place to put stuff and it also tightens up the legs.

http://www.bushtonmanufacturing.com/WebsitePages/The-Hawk-Scroll-Saw.html

 

[Cheryl Davis]

Just finished watching a totally understand now what you were referring to. Spoke with the owner a little while ago and set up a appointment for Friday afternoon to go check it out and hopefully purchase. She tells me they don't have blades, this was her fathers who has passed away, she knows very little about it. What would you suggest to bring with me to use on 3/4" scrape plywood I will be bringing to test with? I'm very excited now that I have spoken to you, was feeling lost before on buying or not.

Also, I did fill out the profile information.

[kmmcrafts]

When looking at it in person.. be sure the front tension handle moves down toward the back of the saw and "Locks" down tight.. That is a wear point that rarely gets mentioned.. a lot of folks know about the wedge at the back of the saw... but it also won't keep tension on the blade if that front cam is worn out.. They do have replacement parts for both that wedge and the front cam pivot.. BUT.. it could be several weeks, and in some cases.. maybe months before replacement parts can be had.. because they do run the business as more of a sideline business than a main income type business.. 

If those parts do have wear it can mean it was used a lot and or.. not maintained well.. They are not expensive parts... but as mentioned... time to get them is more the issue than anything..   

[OCtoolguy]

Cheryl, my recommendation, after looking it all over and doing as Kevin suggested would be to take blade, something that is easy to put in like maybe a #9 or 12, and install it. Tension it per the video instructions and turn it on. If it runs throughout the speed dial and doesn't make any weird noises, I'd go ahead and buy it. If you have anybody near you who might have some scroll saw knowledge, whether it's for Hawk or otherwise, see if you can get them to accompany you. How far away from you is the saw located? If it's not far, I'd be hotfooting it over there and check it out before someone else slips in and buys it. But, that's just me talking here. I get impatient and envision all sorts of folks lining up to grab off what I am looking to buy.

 

[kmmcrafts]

This is what the lower blade holder should look like if it's a Ultra style saw and a newer model.... If there is none then you won't be able to put a blade in the saw and try it.. 

http://stores.bushtonhawkstore.com/lower-ultra-blade-holders/  Get all of them you can with the saw... can't have too many of them and they are $20 each.. if you need to buy some..

 

IF it has these blade holders then stay away from the saw. It's old saw and likely has the problematic motor.. You don't want one of these.. It's $350 ish to fix it with a new motor and controller box if it goes bad.. 

http://stores.bushtonhawkstore.com/lower-barrel-style-blade-holder/

 

This is the wedge we talk of at the back of the saw.. The pointed part that rest on the saw arm should be quite pointed and not worn and rounded over..

http://stores.bushtonhawkstore.com/wedge-pivot/

[Cheryl Davis]

I don't know of anyone that does scroll work but I feel pretty confident now on what to look at and how to test. She is only about 5 miles from my house but she is not available until Friday between her job and the kids playing ball. Just called my son to arrange for him to come with me to help put in my SUV if I purchase it. I'm excited and want to go now but can't and it's bumming me out. I have been talking with her, about it, for over a week now and she has never mentions any others interested in it, in fact, she keeps sending me messages asking if I am still interested in buying. Hopefully, no one else will beat me to it.

You guys are awesome!!!! So glad I found this group.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Cheryl Davis

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

As mentioned the square blade holders are what you want. Hopefully she has them and ask if she has any spares and if she finds any at a later date get them. Most scrollers buy extra sets of those holders so I bet he had some. As Kevin said if there are none you will not be able to try the blade portion but still will be able to turn it on. If it has the holders and you are able to use a blade you will notice 2 holes on the side of the upper arm. These are for those clamps. They hold the clamp in place as you put a blade in. Then you place blade under the saw and hopefully you see where this goes and how it works so maybe watch the video so you are familar somewhat. Plywood is not a great wood to try with but if that is all you have take a piece. Make sure the front blade arm locks and stays down as you run the saw. Run it through its speeds. It will vibrate somewhat because it is not tuned as I mentioned up above. Unless she did not move it where her father used it. It is a good deal if it runs well. The other things such as clamps are getable but may take time. Throw a $300 offer at her and see what she says. It is a great price I can say that. Those saws do not go out of style. It is the parts that the new company has a hard time keep in stock. Yes it is a large saw but only in stature. It will cut small things as well as large. I have that saw and a 220vs and use them for many years and they are still going strong. Do need some parts but again dealer problem. 

[OCtoolguy]

Cheryl, you mentioned about bringing the saw home in your SUV. I drive a Buick Enclave that is pretty big in the back end. I thought sure there would be no problem getting the saw in it to bring home. I was surprised. That saw BARELY fit in the back. If it had been even a fraction bigger, I'd have had to disassemble it. Being the 26 inch model, the length of the saw bed makes the spread of the 4 legs very big. Just wanted to warn you since SUV's can be all different sizes. And, it's heavy. It took two of us to both load and unload my saw. I had a heck of a time getting it into my shop by myself. As JT mentioned above, DO try to make sure you get as much of the stuff that he had for his saw. At $20 each, those blade holders get expensive. I think you're going to like your new toy once you get it home and all set up. But the learning curve is a bit different than your Craftsman was. 

 

 

[kmmcrafts]

May want to consider taking some tools in case you do need to take the legs off the saw.. I can't remember the size off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure it was 7/16 or 1/2 inch bolts..

[Cheryl Davis]

I drive a Tahoe that I can put all the seats down flat to the drivers and passenger seats but I will bring some wrenches just incase. I also arranged for my oldest son to come with me and the sellers husband will be there according to her, my son and I will remove at home. Tomorrow afternoon can't get here fast enough, you guys have me excited about this saw. Bad part is, I'm flying out Saturday afternoon to visit my sister in Georgia for a week, I'll bet I'm up real late in the garage Friday night playing.

[kmmcrafts]

3 hours ago, Cheryl Davis said:

I drive a Tahoe that I can put all the seats down flat to the drivers and passenger seats but I will bring some wrenches just incase. I also arranged for my oldest son to come with me and the sellers husband will be there according to her, my son and I will remove at home. Tomorrow afternoon can't get here fast enough, you guys have me excited about this saw. Bad part is, I'm flying out Saturday afternoon to visit my sister in Georgia for a week, I'll bet I'm up real late in the garage Friday night playing.

Should fit in a Tahoe just fine.. However they're heavy and just big and awkward.. don't lift it from the arms of the saw it'll mess up a whole lot of stuff if you do.. The one that was assembled that I bought was the smaller saw and I have a pick-up.. but I still took it apart so it was just easier to load / unload..  

[OCtoolguy]

Yes, as Kevin said, your Tahoe will be fine. Heck, you can put a sheet of plywood in that thing. My Enclave is not quite as wide and I didn't want to mess up any of the side panels by scratching them. We turned it what I would call sideways so that two of the legs were on the right and the actual saw was on the left and then slid it in. You'll do fine with all that help. Take the time to do a good clean up on it and read the manual to see where to oil/lubricate it. When I got mine home, I took it partially apart to clean out all the places that require oil because it had sat in a garage since about 2002. I figured that even if it had been oiled, that oil would have to be in bad shape by now. You will love your saw. I'm still trying to get used to mine. I still haven't found a suitable chair/stool for it. Oh, check to see if they have the foot switch that should have come with it. Best of luck, enjoy.

 

[NC Scroller]

If you need to the legs are removable.  I believe it is a 7/16" or 1 /2" nuts.   It is a good machine especially for the price.

[Cheryl Davis]

Yay, today is the day I may get my new toy. Seller did send me a message last night that the saw is still for sale and wanted to know if I was still interested in it. She will contact me today on a time for me to go see it. Thanks to you guys, I feel very confident that I can make a good decision to purchase or not.  I will let you know what happens and then probably start bugging y'all for tips on using it, since it is way bigger than I'm use too. Can't thank you enough for giving me the confidence to make this happen, hopefully!!!! 

[Cheryl Davis]

Seller sent me a message earlier saying someone offered her $450 for the saw. Guess it was not meant to be. 

[OCtoolguy]

24 minutes ago, Cheryl Davis said:

Seller sent me a message earlier saying someone offered her $450 for the saw. Guess it was not meant to be. 

You know what? This may be a blessing in disguise. The 226 is a huge saw. The 220VS might be a better saw and I think there are more of them out there to choose from. At least in the area where I live. If I had a chance, I'd trade my 226 for a 220. In my small shop it would make a very big difference in the floor space my saw takes up now. Be patient and a deal will come your way. Hopefully sooner rather than later. At least now, you have the information you need to make a choice. While you're at it, you can also watch for a good Dewalt 788 or an Excalibur or Hegner or ?????? Sorry for your disappointment though.

[Cheryl Davis]

I really believe you are right, Ray. I see others often so I will just keep an eye out. I am working out of a little oversized garage which is already full with all the tools. I'm also wandering if she is just trying to hike up the price, she has been sending me messages for over a week wanting me to come get it, when I commit, price goes up. Thanks again for all you help and advice, I do now know what I'm looking for with confidence.

[OCtoolguy]

3 hours ago, Cheryl Davis said:

I really believe you are right, Ray. I see others often so I will just keep an eye out. I am working out of a little oversized garage which is already full with all the tools. I'm also wandering if she is just trying to hike up the price, she has been sending me messages for over a week wanting me to come get it, when I commit, price goes up. Thanks again for all you help and advice, I do now know what I'm looking for with confidence.

She might just give you a call after this weekend goes by and she still has the saw. At that point, I'd offer her $300.