Question for Hawk Owners

[Scrappile]

Is the thumb screw for the top clamp really this long, or is this a substitute? I want to replace it.  Does not hold the blade and I notice the previous owner did some not very good filing on the end of it.  The pictures on Hawk website do not look this long.

 

[OCtoolguy]

That looks like the wrong screw Paul. If you didn't get anything other than that with the saw, go to the Bushton site and order the correct one. I'm trying to recall what mine looked like but I know it wasn't that long. Of course, I've been know to be wrong a time or two. Just ask my wife. She remembers every single time.

Edit: I just pulled up the parts diagram for your saw and they call it a 1/4x20x1/2" Cap screw. But right above that listing is a part called a "T-bolt" with no size listed. Anyway, I think it should be 1/2" long. I'm wondering if the clamp screw from a Dewalt or Pegas/EX saw might work. They are 1/4x20 and have the swivel end.

 

Edited September 26, 2024 by OCtoolguy

[kmmcrafts]

17 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said:

That looks like the wrong screw Paul. If you didn't get anything other than that with the saw, go to the Bushton site and order the correct one. I'm trying to recall what mine looked like but I know it wasn't that long. Of course, I've been know to be wrong a time or two. Just ask my wife. She remembers every single time.

Edit: I just pulled up the parts diagram for your saw and they call it a 1/4x20x1/2" Cap screw. But right above that listing is a part called a "T-bolt" with no size listed. Anyway, I think it should be 1/2" long. I'm wondering if the clamp screw from a Dewalt or Pegas/EX saw might work. They are 1/4x20 and have the swivel end.

 

Are you sure the DW EX saws are 1/4 x 20? I tried to see if they'd fit my Hawk and nope.. I believe the EX saws are maybe metric. 

I order my thumb screws from McMastercar.. that said you can also just go to a hardware store and pick them up as well. My local hardware only had the rounded handle ones and I didn't like it because I was used to the T handle style of the Excaliburs etc. Paul may like that style as the Hegners have the rounded knurled nob.. at least mine does, LOL.. 

Paul, you could just take a grinder or hacksaw and cut some off the end of this one and then dress the end up.. I also find that the ones you buy from the hardware tend to not be totally flat on the end.. there is like a ring / ridge and needs dressed out flat anyway. Heck I bought some from Hawk and they wasn't even dressed out all that great.. though much better than the hardware..

I take a drill bit just the right size and drill into a larger flat piece of scrap to thread both the thumb screw and set screw  into just enough to slightly protrude the back side of the board and then either go to the belt sander or just use the RO sander and sand them flat. Always wanted to use make a steel plate with threads because sometimes the flat board might be cupped or warped slightly giving you a false flat surface, LOL. Doesn't take much to be off on both the set and thumb screw to not clamp the blade good enough. Practice on that long one.. maybe by the time you get it truly flat the screw will be the right length.. 

[Scrappile]

I wrote Hawk for the correct part numbers.  The diagram in the manual confused me a little. I would like to replace this one with the correct one and have a couple of spares for the top and bottom clamps.  I wish they had a quick clamp like the Hegner, but they probably do not want a person to have that much torque in an aluminum clamp.  I am so anxious to try this beast out.  I think I will love it once I figure it all out.  Right now, I am loving my Hegner more and more, the clamps and all are so much stronger and simpler.  But I keep in mind the beautiful things I have seen done on one of these saws, and I know it is worth figuring it all out.  I will probably be asking a lot of questions for a while.  Fun to learn a new thing.

[OCtoolguy]

25 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Are you sure the DW EX saws are 1/4 x 20? I tried to see if they'd fit my Hawk and nope.. I believe the EX saws are maybe metric. 

I order my thumb screws from McMastercar.. that said you can also just go to a hardware store and pick them up as well. My local hardware only had the rounded handle ones and I didn't like it because I was used to the T handle style of the Excaliburs etc. Paul may like that style as the Hegners have the rounded knurled nob.. at least mine does, LOL.. 

Paul, you could just take a grinder or hacksaw and cut some off the end of this one and then dress the end up.. I also find that the ones you buy from the hardware tend to not be totally flat on the end.. there is like a ring / ridge and needs dressed out flat anyway. Heck I bought some from Hawk and they wasn't even dressed out all that great.. though much better than the hardware..

I take a drill bit just the right size and drill into a larger flat piece of scrap to thread both the thumb screw and set screw  into just enough to slightly protrude the back side of the board and then either go to the belt sander or just use the RO sander and sand them flat. Always wanted to use make a steel plate with threads because sometimes the flat board might be cupped or warped slightly giving you a false flat surface, LOL. Doesn't take much to be off on both the set and thumb screw to not clamp the blade good enough. Practice on that long one.. maybe by the time you get it truly flat the screw will be the right length.. 

Yeah, you might be correct on the EX clamp screws. But if I recall correctly, the Dewalt screws are 1/4x20.

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Take the screw out of the hold down foot and replace it with the long one. It is the same screw as used for the top clamp.  In fact get rid of that foot.

Top and bottom clamps are different sized bolts. 

One other thing to warn you about because your saw is about as old as mine. The lower clamps supplied probably have a roll pin in them that the clamp rides in the blade holder under the saw. if so over time they have a tendency to bend and this will cause the blade to not be able to be centered. RBI has changed those clamps now and are solid pieces.

One other thing is the bottom blade holder. if you have that nylon holder, they become stretched over time. Many people just order a few extras. I actually replaced mine with a thin piece of spring steel and shaped it like that holder. It has worked great for many years. I did that on both my RBI saws.   

Edited September 26, 2024 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

The biggest draw back on the hegner is their blade holders. You have to line the blade up dead center in the clamp as you tighten. RBI is a matter of holding it straight up and down and does not have to be exact. Clean the clamps and the screws of any oils and check if they are flat. 

Edited September 26, 2024 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, OCtoolguy said:

Yeah, you might be correct on the EX clamp screws. But if I recall correctly, the Dewalt screws are 1/4x20.

 

Hmm, I guess I'm confused now.. not hard to do but I will say I have used the DW screw in my EX.. so those are the same size.. but they don't fit in the Hawk.. at least not in the Ultra saws.. Hawk change the size of the screws on the newer saws to a little larger size.. I can't remember now what all the sizes are because I have 3 different Hawks and all 3 use a different size screw.. 

[Scrappile]

I find this so fun.  And please keep the comments coming.  John, the thing I am most skeptical of right now is the Hawk blade clamps and, vice versa, the Hegner.  The Hegner are steel, and yes, the ones I am most used to, but I have never had a problem with them in any way.  I Hawks are aluminum, which sorta makes me cautious, it is easy to strip threads and bend.  I am okay, they have been around for a long time.  I just have to be aware

 Hard to compare screws with metric-built machines (Hegner) and American standards (Hawk).  Another thing that has made me hesitant about Hawk is customer service.  Been known not to be so good in the past.  But I sent a message today and got a response within a couple of hours.  And the order was placed.  this is what I love about here: a lot of knowledge on lots of different saws.  Makes me confident that I will be scrolling happily in the Hawk in short order.   I also encourage those starting out to read the forum and not hurry into a lesser saw.  There is great advice here.  Ask, check, and believe. I mean, I now have a top-of-the-line saw, for which I paid far less than you would pay for an entry-level saw.  Do not hurry, ask questions here. And be happy.  

Edited September 26, 2024 by Scrappile

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Scrappile said:

I find this so fun.  And please keep the comments coming.  John, the thing I am most skeptical of right now is the Hawk blade clamps and, vice versa, the Hegner.  The Hegner are steel, and yes, the ones I am most used to, but I have never had a problem with them in any way.  I Hawks are aluminum, which sorta makes me cautious, it is easy to strip threads and bend.  I am okay, they have been around for a long time.  I just have to be aware

 Hard to compare screws with metric-built machines (Hegner) and American standards (Hawk).  Another thing that has made me hesitant about Hawk is customer service.  Been known not to be so good in the past.  But I sent a message today and got a response within a couple of hours.  And the order was placed.  this is what I love about here: a lot of knowledge on lots of different saws.  Makes me confident that I will be scrolling happily in the Hawk in short order.   I also encourage those starting out to read the forum and not hurry into a lesser saw.  There is great advice here.  Ask, check, and believe. I mean, I now have a top-of-the-line saw, for which I paid far less than you would pay for an entry-level saw.  Do not hurry, ask questions here. And be happy.  

There are many various grades of aluminum... I'm not saying that the threads don't strip out on a Hawk in any way as I'm sure if you crank them down with some pliers you can do it, LOL. I will say I'm pretty sure the grade of aluminum on these Hawk clamps is of better quality than that of the DeWalt and EX type machines that are known for stripped threads and spreading out the clamps etc.. Not saying it's never happen on a Hawk but I have never once read anything on the forums about stripped clamps on a Hawk.. Again, use pliers and I'm sure you can, LOL

It's funny when you get a new to you saw you have to experiment and find all the quirks of that saw.. When I got my Hegner I kept having the blade slip out of one of my clamps.. I got mad and thought maybe I'm not getting them tight enough.. so the next one I cranked on it and snapped the little screw off flush so no getting it back out without drilling it etc.. LOL.. Lucky for me I had a few more to use. Another struggle I had was getting the blade mounted in the clamp straight.. at first I was pushing the blade in to bottom out on the screw.. however when tightening it down it would make the blade spin off to an angle.. I finally learned to bottom it out then bring it back up slightly so it's not riding on the screw.. goes in straight all the time now.. 

[Scrappile]

Okay, here is the real plus of me buying this saw.  Far beyond the price of the saw, which I thought was very good in my favor. But the spokesperson that facilitated the messaging for me to purchase it just sent me an email, through messages, I knew I did not have family living close by and invited my wife and me to share Thanksgiving dinner with them.  Can you imagine that in this day and age?   How nice is that?  The price I paid for the saw just diminished to nothing, for the value of making new friends like that!  Can you imagine?  I am a loss for words!  GOD Bless Them!

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

5 hours ago, Scrappile said:

I find this so fun.  And please keep the comments coming.  John, the thing I am most skeptical of right now is the Hawk blade clamps and, vice versa, the Hegner.  The Hegner are steel, and yes, the ones I am most used to, but I have never had a problem with them in any way.  I Hawks are aluminum, which sorta makes me cautious, it is easy to strip threads and bend.  I am okay, they have been around for a long time.  I just have to be aware

 Hard to compare screws with metric-built machines (Hegner) and American standards (Hawk).  Another thing that has made me hesitant about Hawk is customer service.  Been known not to be so good in the past.  But I sent a message today and got a response within a couple of hours.  And the order was placed.  this is what I love about here: a lot of knowledge on lots of different saws.  Makes me confident that I will be scrolling happily in the Hawk in short order.   I also encourage those starting out to read the forum and not hurry into a lesser saw.  There is great advice here.  Ask, check, and believe. I mean, I now have a top-of-the-line saw, for which I paid far less than you would pay for an entry-level saw.  Do not hurry, ask questions here. And be happy.  

You will never strip the threads on those clamps. You could not put enough torque on them with your fingers. Not going to happen. You can not bend them either. All the years I used my RBI saws I never stripped a screw or thread. I gave you some points to be careful about as you use the saw for these things I have seen and experienced first hand.  What is so much better with RBI clamps as opposed to hegner. No other tool needed to insert blades like with Hegner. hegner is a very good saw and alot depends what saw you learn on. I had the Hegner before the RBI saws but quickly adapted to the RBI saws flawlessly. Such an easy saw to use. Now these saws are strickly bottom feeders and again that is what I learned on and have no problem with that. 

[Scrappile]

John,  interesting, I find, for now, having just got a Hawk the Hegner clamp so much simpler and solid!   But I will see as I get to know the Hawk. The whole tension mechanism seems more complicated than on the Hegner. It not only seems to be what it is, but once you figure it out and get more comfortable with it, maybe not.  Stand by. I am sure I will need more guidance 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

14 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

John,  interesting, I find, for now, having just got a Hawk the Hegner clamp so much simpler and solid!   But I will see as I get to know the Hawk. The whole tension mechanism seems more complicated than on the Hegner. It not only seems to be what it is, but once you figure it out and get more comfortable with it, maybe not.  Stand by. I am sure I will need more guidance 

I think too much is made with tensioning. I set my tension once and only time I ever touch it is if I am using Jewlers blades which are so small and thin and break easily. But other than that I use the same tension for a #7 blade as I do for a #3 blade. I scrolled many puzzles with puzzle blades that are also very thin and never changed tension. Overthinking cause problems. That clock thing I never paid attention to. I can adjust tension very easily with the upfront tension knob. Setting the blade higher or lower in the clamp can change tension. You will pick up these little tricks the more you use it. 

[kmmcrafts]

Yes, I never change the tension of my blades once I set it up.. unless I'm using really small blades.. Just like JT, I use the same setting for all blades from #3 - 7 without issue. I slightly loosen it for the 2/0 spiral blade or puzzle blades.. otherwise it stays the same. 

You can also adjust how low / high the arm comes down to match the blades with that locking nut on the bottom of that rod. I always adjusted it so I bring the arm down and it bottoms out at the right height to clamp the blade.. this way the blade is always in the same position every time and thus having the same tension every time.. The issue with this now that I switched to Pegas blades is... Pegas blades are not consistent  in length so that throws that out the window if you use the Pegas blades, LOL

IF you have problems with the tension many people do not know this.. even many experience with Hawks.. There is a small set screw underneath the upper arm right below where the front tension lever goes through the arm. Inside that is a cam deal and a small nylon type set screw. That screw needs to be adjusted so there is some resistance on that lever when moving it ( without a blade in it ) down toward the tensioning position you should feel some resistance when the lever is about 1/8 inch from touching the arm.. That is the "locking" the tension position.. IF that is out of adjustment it can let the lever not lock and loose tension. Hope I make sense of this, LOL.. IF not I can show a video.. probably need to check and adjust mine so I could video a how too. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

2 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Yes, I never change the tension of my blades once I set it up.. unless I'm using really small blades.. Just like JT, I use the same setting for all blades from #3 - 7 without issue. I slightly loosen it for the 2/0 spiral blade or puzzle blades.. otherwise it stays the same. 

You can also adjust how low / high the arm comes down to match the blades with that locking nut on the bottom of that rod. I always adjusted it so I bring the arm down and it bottoms out at the right height to clamp the blade.. this way the blade is always in the same position every time and thus having the same tension every time.. The issue with this now that I switched to Pegas blades is... Pegas blades are not consistent  in length so that throws that out the window if you use the Pegas blades, LOL

IF you have problems with the tension many people do not know this.. even many experience with Hawks.. There is a small set screw underneath the upper arm right below where the front tension lever goes through the arm. Inside that is a cam deal and a small nylon type set screw. That screw needs to be adjusted so there is some resistance on that lever when moving it ( without a blade in it ) down toward the tensioning position you should feel some resistance when the lever is about 1/8 inch from touching the arm.. That is the "locking" the tension position.. IF that is out of adjustment it can let the lever not lock and loose tension. Hope I make sense of this, LOL.. IF not I can show a video.. probably need to check and adjust mine so I could video a how too. 

As Kevin said at the end that set screw or cam can also wear out and needs replacing or else the tension handle does not lock and they sell the front components and very easy to replace. That part of the saw gets alot of use. RBI is a great saw. Give it some time and use and you will fall in love with it. 

[rjweb]

Wow saw and dinner you can't go wrong, RJ

[Scrappile]

Okay, I have another question.  I have not dealt with roll pines.  I noticed to replace some of the items, I need to remove a roll pin.  I know there are "Roll pin drivers," but I only see sets, expensive sets, for sale.  Do you know the size needed? I would hate t to buy and not get the size required. Or, is there something to use as an alternative?

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

39 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

Okay, I have another question.  I have not dealt with roll pines.  I noticed to replace some of the items, I need to remove a roll pin.  I know there are "Roll pin drivers," but I only see sets, expensive sets, for sale.  Do you know the size needed? I would hate t to buy and not get the size required. Or, is there something to use as an alternative?

Use a nail. Get one the size of the pin. I use a pair of Channellock pliers and a nail. Cut to size you need and now keep it forever. Of course when you need it again you do not know where it is. Don't ask how I know this.

Edited September 28, 2024 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[kmmcrafts]

You might ask Bushton for the size or maybe listed in the manual parts list. You can use a nail as JT said but just be sure you don't have too small of one as the roll pin is split down the center and you could end up expanding it and making it harder to get out, LOL.. 

I bought a set of roll pin punches from HF If I remember correctly. Many times if you can get it started pushed through you can grab it with some pliers on the other side and pull it out. Use some spray like WD-40 or I like PB Blaster better myself but no real need to go buy it if you have some sort of penetrant on hand. 

Are you looking to replace the cam piece or the whole nose assembly? I replaced one on my very old 220VS saw and it was a nice upgrade for that saw.. Always said I'd do the upgrade on the Ultra too but haven't yet.  

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Just measure the hole. You would need a punch plier because you can not hammer on the pin. Many times just get them started and you can pull out with any pliers. 

 

All the same

.125 inches or 1/8" or 3.17mm

Edited September 28, 2024 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[kmmcrafts]

I hammered on mine but I took the arm off the saw and open the jaws on the vise just enough for the pin to slide through so I didn't damage / bend etc. the arm.. JT is correct about not hammering on the arm while on the saw etc.. You could also press it out on the vise or a press with the right sized punch and something on the other side to let the pin come through. You really don't want to whale on the hammer to get it out either.. Either case I feel like the best way would be removing the arm from the saw otherwise you may damage the bearings and damage the arm too.

[OCtoolguy]

9 hours ago, Scrappile said:

Okay, I have another question.  I have not dealt with roll pines.  I noticed to replace some of the items, I need to remove a roll pin.  I know there are "Roll pin drivers," but I only see sets, expensive sets, for sale.  Do you know the size needed? I would hate t to buy and not get the size required. Or, is there something to use as an alternative?

Paul, you can get a small set off Amazon for about $20. I bought a complete set of punches and chisels for under $50. Good quality. I used to sell roll pin punches individually so if you see any of the mobil tool trucks, stop the guy and get just the sizes you need. From what I recall you can probably get by with a 1/8". 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Man we are making a big deal out of getting the roll pins out. Listen to me please. get a 1/8" nail and set of pump pliers but I like to use channelock pliers because they are offset and just push them out. Could not be easier. They are all 1/8" roll pins on that saw including the ones in the clamps. No hammers needed. Please do not take the arm off. If you need I will take a photo of how I do it and the pliers and nail. Sorry I can not take videos though.  If you have to take the ones out of the clamps then hammer away. 20lb sledge will work

[kmmcrafts]

38 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Man we are making a big deal out of getting the roll pins out. Listen to me please. get a 1/8" nail and set of pump pliers but I like to use channelock pliers because they are offset and just push them out. Could not be easier. They are all 1/8" roll pins on that saw including the ones in the clamps. No hammers needed. Please do not take the arm off. If you need I will take a photo of how I do it and the pliers and nail. Sorry I can not take videos though.  If you have to take the ones out of the clamps then hammer away. 20lb sledge will work

That way does sound much easier than how I did mine.. I tried similar with mine and it wouldn't budge.. however that particular saw was rode hard and put away wet.. meaning it was a very well used worn out saw that I got cheap and should have passed on it for a better one.. the roll pin was so rusted to the arm it took quite a lot of force to get it out.. so I just remember it being stuck very well and  the arm needed to come off the saw.. now that you mention this I imagine it'd work well so long as it's not all corroded etc. like mine was.. I was concerned about ruining the arm but the saw as is was not usable either.. I ended up soaking it with PB blaster for a few days and finally did get it to move.. Mind you I didn't give real hard blows but the first couple to get it to move was harder than I really would have liked but it did end up working.. I had to replace the pin due to the rust on it..  In fact I kept having to work it back and forth several times while also soaking it with penetrant and when spraying the penetrant and working it you could see the rust wash off.. It took a good few days of soaking it.. If the saw is in good condition it shouldn't be this difficult as you said.