Skyhawk7

The Hawk BM-20 arrived yesterday from Bushton. It surprised me how heavy it is. It is around 100 pounds. LOL, I'm older, and it took all my strength to unbox and lift it up once I had the legs attached. The instructions said to have two people lift the thing, but I was like a kid at Christmas, and I wasn't going to wait. Compared to my Wen 16, this thing is a heavy-duty tank. Even the hardware I worked with, bolting it together, seemed super heavy-duty. The Hawk shows virtually no vibration. Anyway, the saw was easy to set up because it has a really simple, straightforward design. At least that's my initial impression. I can see why replacement parts are said to be very reasonably priced, given the simple design. Bushton services their saws, but it looks like you can replace a part yourself if ever needed. I mostly use Pegas MGT blades and put one in the saw, and blade changes are easy. I like the tensioning system. Super simple, fast, and easy. I like the blade holders. It just looks like it is built for heavy-duty use. Industrial grade. I can see why the older models are still around after 30-40 years. I sure had a fun day today, just getting used to the new saw. I liked how the table is smoother to move wood on. Much smoother than the Wen. I'm making a couple of rocking horses, and most of the cutting is 1.5" Oak. It will be interesting to see how it does with that. One last thing. I did have questions about the saw, and I called Bushton. The same knowledgeable lady, Hope, answered the phone. LOL, I'm so used to having to go through AI bots now, and trying to actually get a "human" that it startles me when Hope answers the phone there and I realize there is zero wait. Anyway, she answered my questions and was super helpful (just a nice lady too). Just thought I'd post this follow-up. I like the saw so far.

Welcome from central Illinois. I really liked your work photos. Thanks for posting them.

I agree. We also seem to be a throwaway society. By that, I mean that so many things are just tossed into the garbage rather than being repaired. My dad was amazing in that he seemed able to fix almost anything. It seemed like things were made to be repaired, more than they are now. LOL, I remember we had an ancient black-and-white TV that he bought used for our first family TV. We had that thing forever. It would sometimes glitch out, and dad would get his tube-tester out, locate a bad tube and replace it - we'd be back to munching popcorn and watching Gunsmoke before the episode ended. Good memories.

One last thing I thought I'd share about buying the Hawk is how different the experience was from anything I've purchased in years. It's like going back in time. A nice lady, Hope, is the office manager at Bushton (the manufacturer of the Hawk saws), and she was the person who answered the phone and helped me. I'm used to the big box store experience, but this is the exact opposite. Hope answered questions, and she took the time to answer the questions I had. She told me I was 5th in line for the new saw and four more were being built ahead of mine. She said it would probably be near the end of the month when they had mine built and ready to ship to me. She said there are 3 people who actually manufacture the Hawk saws - not 3 manufacturing sites, but three people. Then she said they make them about a block and a half from her office... just down the street in this small town. The Hawk saws are made in a small town of a few hundred people in Bushton, Kansas (same name as the company that makes the Hawk saws). The town of Bushton is about 100 miles northeast of Dodge City (Dodge isn't a real big town either... around 25,000 people, I think). Hope told me that all the parts used to build the Hawk saws are made in the USA, except for one bearing that is special due to its heat tolerance. She said they're still looking for a USA bearing to replace it, but so far, it's the best they've found, so they continue to use that one part. Anyway, Hope was super nice and helpful—and obviously very proud of the Hawk saws. She (seriously) told me the saw I bought would still be going strong for my grandkids to use someday... and if there's anything I ever need, just ask. When I hung up the phone, it felt like I'd just gone back in time to better days, before the world got so modern and crazy. Pretty cool experience for sure.

95% of the time, I've been using the Pegas Modified Geometry blades with the two Wen saws I've owned so far. They have performed well for me. Maybe it's my imagination, but they sure seem to perform significantly better than other brands I've tried. They're more expensive, but I thought that using cheap blades on my entry-level scroll saw was probably not the best way to go.

I just ordered a new Hawk BM-20 scroll saw from the manufacturer, Bushton. Thank you all for helping me by answering a lot of questions. Between that and what I could read online, I believe the Hawk will be a good fit for my needs. It sure sounds like there is no perfect scroll saw that's best for everyone - it's not a "one size fits all" type of thing. I don't know how long it will be before the saw arrives, but when it does, I'll let you know my initial reaction. LOL, and yes, I'll try to post a picture or two of some real work done on it. I opted for the 20-inch model instead of their larger saw. Size-wise, the 16" Wen was able to do what I needed, so the 20-inch will be plenty big enough.

I came across your post tonight and gotta admit I'm so curious how the saw did for you these past years. I'm considering purchasing a Hawk myself. Do you still like the saw?

Thanks, I have already learned a lot from helpful people here. This is a gold mine for help.

Funny you should mention your discussion with your wife regarding the new saw. I just had a new saw talk with my wife over dinner this evening. I am older, too, and I'm not sure how much longer I'll be able to pursue my woodworking hobby. For now I'm healthy and doing well. But I just lost a friend two days ago... it occurred to me tonight that I'm probably not going to need a saw that will last a bunch of years because I'm not going to last that long . I'd sure like to have a better saw, though. She is a kind soul and asked if I had the room for it in my workshop. I do have the room. She said to go ahead and buy it, then. I do listen to her because she's usually right about stuff. LOL, someday I'll share about us being a young married couple, and I was cutting down a very large tree & she had said it looked like it might land on our home... I learned that day, the hard way, that I need to listen to her. She is the wise one, and I'm the crazy idea guy. We do balance each other out well, though.

That's what I am finding out now as I follow the used scroll saw marketplace postings. I also contacted Bushton, the manufacturer of the Hawks, and asked if they had any factory-reconditioned BM series saws for sale. Over the years, I have purchased factory-rebuilt items and have never been disappointed. I thought that maybe the Hawks might be available. Anyway, the lady who helped me was very nice and patiently told me that they wouldn't see any BM series in for a while (they came out only 13 years ago). These saws are built to last a lifetime, and more. She said that yes, every once in a while, they may get in an older model, which was made before Bushton owned the company (the original company goes back almost 100 years, and made scroll saws as far back as 40 years ago). But she said they don't get many in for repairs, even the older models (if I understood her correctly). These are USA-made saws that are built to last a long, long time. I felt a bit foolish after contacting them... but they were very kind and good and patient with me. I was accustomed to my Wen tool experiences, although Wen was good and did replace my last saw that had died. Hawks are different than what I am used to. This is different than a big-box store purchase. And nothing wrong with a big-box store (LOL, I practically live at our local Lowe's). But buying one of these Hawk scroll saws is different than what I am used to. Real people who are really helpful and who are very proud of what they make. I am going to buy one of their saws for sure now. New, if I can save up a bit more money, or a used VS Ultra model, if I can't. I like the idea of them being manufactured in a small town in the Midwest USA by a company that actually has a human being answering the phone. They have affordable parts readily available - and they fix what they sell for a reasonable fee, too, if you ever need them to.

I did notice the Hawk saws require a good-sized space in the workshop. However, I do have a great space available, and it would fit well with my small work area. It's a small workshop, but over the years, it has evolved into a great workflow space for me. I think one of the messages I read on the forum over the past few days mentioned that you were a valuable resource for information on the Hawk saws. I'm leaning towards buying a new Hawk BM-20. That's more expensive than I was planning on spending, so it will take a few more months to afford the purchase. It looks like it would serve my needs well, and for the long haul (instead of replacing these Wen saws... I'm on my 2nd Wen). What do you see as the pros and cons of the BM-20? A "Plan-B" would be to get a used 20-inch Hawk. If I were to go that route, what models would you recommend that I consider? And a final question I had is about buying a used saw, going through it, and refurbishing it, so I'm starting out with a solid saw in excellent shape. Is that something that is worth considering? Buying new parts from Bushton and replacing certain old ones on the used saw? It sounds like Hawk parts are not overly expensive. I thought that might be a way to begin with a solid saw that would last a long, long time. What are your thoughts on this... I'd welcome any input.

I see the same thing with the newer Hawks (BM-20 and BM-26 models that have been on the market for 13 years). They seem to be unicorns in the used marketplace. I do see a lot of the older Hawk models. Parts are still carried by Bushton (the manufacturer of Hawk scroll saws), and they are supposed to be pretty reasonable. And they still recondition the old models as well. They charge $60/hour for it, though. They also provide phone support if you purchase new parts and want to install them yourself. However, I'm beginning to understand that if I want a BM series model, I'm probably going to have to buy a new one or overpay for a used one if it becomes available. The other option would be to purchase one of the old saw models and try to recondition it myself (the parts that may need it due to wear and tear).

I can relate to that. I have a very small workshop in our garage. My wife had the idea years ago of putting my workbench and saw tables on heavy-duty wheels. I can roll what I'm using outside in good weather. The neighbors like to stop by and talk, so it often takes twice as long to do stuff. But I'm retired and enjoy solving the world's problems with them. LOL, I sometimes see them coming down the street with something that needs fixed... or they ask me to come over to their home to look at something broken that needs simple carpenter work. I have never been able to say no to anything like that. At the end of the day, I roll my stuff back into the garage and put it away. In cold Illinois weather, I stay in the garage. Maybe someday I'll get heat out there. I thought about that band saw suggestion (I've never had one), but I'm not sure where I'd put it. I have a buddy in town who I worked with for many years, and he's also retired. He has all the nice woodworking equipment, and I take things over to his house when I need something like that. It's a good excuse to visit with him. So probably no band saw for me, for now anyway.

My hope is to find something I can drive to, look over, and pick up if I like it. But I won't be doing this until January or so. I'm from Central Illinois, but often travel near the St. Louis area and Wisconsin. Western Iowa or eastern Indiana would be easy trips for me, too. I just updated my profile, thanks for the tip.

This is a small rocking horse for a 2 or 3-year-old. So far, it's going well. I have until Christmas to finish them - one for my grandson and one for my granddaughter (from two different families: one is my son's child, and the other is my daughter's child). I've never had a bandsaw, but most of the toys will not be this big; rather, they will be small toys that are more appropriate for a scroll saw.

Thanks, I will do that. And I may break down and buy a new saw instead of used. I go back and forth about it. Thanks for the reply and help. I appreciate it.

Afterward, I thought that "heavy Oak" was not very helpful. I have a source for 4/4 and 6/4 White and Red Oak, and I find myself using those boards a lot. My current toy project is making two rocking horses for two of my grandchildren (the attached picture is what I'm working on). The plans call for gluing 3/4-inch boards together to create the thicker stock. I'm not selling anything, but I just want to make some vintage toys for all of my grandchildren as they grow up (they're all young now... the oldest are toddlers, old enough for rocking horses). My oldest is crazy about trains, so I think my next project for him will be a train set. My oldest granddaughter likes farm animals, and I thought I'd try a tractor with a wagon and farm animals she can play with. When she is older, I really want to do a nice vintage dollhouse (more fine work there). I have primarily made furniture over the past 30 or so years and never considered toy making until recently. I must admit that I am excited about all the cool possibilities. It looks a lot more fun than furniture making... but every so often I do build furniture for our house to keep Mrs Skyhawk tolerating my woodworking hobby. The Wen will do Oak at 3/4", but I would like a saw that is an upgrade with a deeper throat and LOL, I'm an old guy now and would like to treat myself to a nicer saw... not a need as much as a want. I liked the fact that the Hawks made by Bushton are USA-made in a small midwestern town (I live in the Midwest). I might just buy a new saw from them; the BM-20 looks like it would be good for what I do. I'm just trying to get an idea of the possibilities, used vs new, and the various options. Hope I didn't talk your ear off here. I'm thankful that I can run some of this by people more knowledgeable than I am. Thanks for answering my post, I appreciate it.

I am on my 2nd Wen 16-inch scroll saw. My focus now is on making wood toys. I work with a lot of hardwood, mostly Oak. I use the best blades and try to go slow with the Wen, letting the tool do the work. But it just doesn't seem like the best fit for me... I'm asking it to do too much for a budget saw. I have been browsing the Facebook Marketplace for used saws in my area to see what's available that would be an upgrade over my Wen—something better suited to thicker Oak work. I am seeing a number of Hawk 20-inch saws within my price range. And they're close enough to me that I could drive there and check them out. I don't see many of the BM series saws, but a lot of the RBI line of saws, like the Ultra and G4 series. Would these be good options for what I'm using my scroll saw for (toymaking with heavier Oak)? Are there other used scroll saws that you'd recommend I consider? I see a number of Hegner saws advertised, too. Are there Hegner models that you'd recommend I consider? One thing I like about the Hawk saws is that they are manufactured in the USA, and it seems like parts are easy to get. And for that matter, I could probably drive to the small town where the manufacturer (Bushton Manufacturing) still repairs the saws for a reasonable fee. And if you have any suggestions for me about this, I'd appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for the help.

I have enjoyed woodworking as a hobby, but never had a scroll saw of my own. LOL, if I needed to do scroll saw work, I'd go over to my dad's house and use his. It was always a good excuse to visit with him. I never bought my own because I didn't feel I used one that often. I mostly make furniture. I'm not that good at it, but it has been a fun hobby. My wife and I are fairly new grandparents, and I've discovered the world of wood toy making. I have to admit that I find toymaking even more fun than furniture (LOL, I'm working on Christmas toys for the grandkids now). Anyway, for toymaking, I realized I really needed a scroll saw, so I bought an entry-level Wen 16", and it has been a nice addition to my workshop. But I can tell that I'm going to want to upgrade the saw when I can afford it. A 20" or 21" throat depth would be nice too. In the meantime, I'm thankful for the Wen. I'm having fun with it. Anyway, I'm thankful for this forum. Happy to be here.