kmmcrafts

That is very well said and explained.. Thank you.. So it's just like car finishes.. The old car finishes such as Lacquer are not great paints.. they dry out over time and crack terrible which eventually exposes the primer and metal they protect well but not for very many years especially in sun and hot / cold climate swings.. Today's Urethane's can last several years.. People used to and some old timers still do put several coats of Lacquer when painting.. they thought it was better protection from fading away.. but in reality it just makes it more prone to crack and chip.. So with all that said then oil finishes are a finish but inferior to certain elements.. and do not protect well from spills etc.. and that makes much sense to me.. Also makes much sense to me that a spray finish of poly also isn't going to protect very well on a fretwork piece because you cannot get "good coverage" in small fret cutouts.. and in my mind a oil type finish is probably going to protect the wood better than getting virtually no spray in those tiny tight cutout areas.. like dipping a project can.. or melting wax / oil mix in.. Wax repels water and seals off the grain pretty well at least the way I do it.. My personal clock project I made and finished with my beeswax / mineral oil mix has been dusted and cleaned by just wiping it with a damp cloth for years.. mostly every week.. and about 1-2 times a year I've actually ran in under water to get the fret cutouts cleaned of dust.. the water beads up on the surface still to this day when running water on it.. The stuff I use Danish oil on looks to me like the water gets soaked into the surface when doing that.. but it seems to dry out quickly and still looks good as well.. Thanks John for explaining this..

Same issue I had with my Excalibur 21" saw.. I talked to Ray and he had me go through a couple test things.. which basically ruled out that the knob itself wasn't loose or moving.. which in my case it wasn't the knob.. turned out to be loose tolerances on the rod threads and or square nut that it screws into or maybe both.. He suggested to me that it needs a new rod and nut to fix the problem.. However I took it apart and put blue thread locker on the threads.. not an issue with it since and that was like 1.5 years ago and around 200 hours run time on my hour meter.. I'm not sure where the topic is now but many other quick and easy temporary fix suggestions.. one was something to do with wrapping a rubber band around it.. another was using some electrical tape under the knob to prevent it from being able to turn on it's own.. I'll do a quick search to see if i can find the topic.. Here is the topic I posted when I was having this issue.. Might find something to help you without having to disassemble the saw.. https://www.scrollsawvillage.com/forums/topic/33000-excalibur-adjusting-itself-observation/?tab=comments#comment-368976

Thanks guys for your input.. I've never thought of a finish as being the "last step" to a complete project.. maybe because in the auto finishing world there are cheaper finishes that aren't as good of a protect-ant from the elements than others are.. so I look at a wood finish as a sealer / protect-ant type thing.. but from your point of view it's just the last process of a project.. But in others eyes it's more like what I think of it as.. otherwise they wouldn't say a oil finish isn't really a finish.. I do realize that oil finishes can dry out over time.. and also realize there are better sealer / protect-ants than oil or Danish oil.. Myself.. I consider Danish oil to be one of the better ones because it has poly in it.. while I realize it may not be the best for protecting the wood.. I would think with the thin coat of poly in it.. it would be considered a better sealer etc.. than plain mineral oil or other oils like the 50/50 mix of BLO that everyone talks of.. I don't really want to get into the discussion of what finish is better than the other because I do realize that is going to be an opinion like saw blades or anything else that is opinion related.. I guess the wording used in these topics is what gets to me a bit because one says its not a finish but it says it is on the can.. Many claimed they would never finish a piece with the beeswax / mineral oil mix that I make.. I stopped using it because I thought maybe I was making a awesome clock but then applying a inferior or poor quality finish on it.. so I went back to the Danish oil.. Then I've also read where the beeswax is soaked into the wood and is a great finish.. a lot of turners use it.. Who knows.. the wax melted into the wood might give better protection than the Danish oil.. Either way.. I'm way too busy these days to go through the process of melting the beeswax mineral oil into the wood anyway so Danish oil is quick and easy..

Not trying to disagree with both of you about Danish oil not being a finish.. as when it comes to wood finishing I'm not educated at all.. I know very little about any of it.. other than I do know that poly is like a type of plastic built up coating..LOL Over the years I've seen many topics about 50/50 BLO and mineral spirits and other oil treatments ( I use the word treatment because you all say they are not a finish ) and in almost all the cases.. everyone says it's not a finish.. I've read discussions over the years where there was arguments about Danish oil specifically because most say it's not a finish.. but there are a handful of folks that say it is.. it has a small amount of poly in it which makes it different than other oils.. and I've seen arguments that it is a finish.. I tell people it is a finish but in a case of situation as the original topic here it's not a wise choice of finish because it doesn't have much poly in the mix therefor it isn't leaving a "top coat" protectant on it.. Some will say it isn't a sealer it's just a oil.. First off maybe we all have a different opinion of the definition of a finish? Maybe some use the word finish loosely? because both of you claim it's not a finish while I claim that it is.. and it also says so on the can.. as well as stating it is a sealer too.. I consider you all to know more than I about finishing wood.. Now if talking car finishes.. I know a bit about that.. since I worked the body shops for years.. other than the real new water based stuff I don't know that.. but anyway.. whats the reasoning you say it isn't a finish.. it says it is on the can.. Maybe it's because there is not a "build up" of finish on the surface? Being a autobody painter for years.. I don't like the spray finishes on fretwork type pieces.. I don't care how good of a sprayer you are.. it's really difficult to get a good even spray on ALL angles of the fret cutouts without loading it up big time on the main surface.. most sprayed fretwork looks great on the surface but to me the fret cutouts look terrible.. sometimes they'll look "OK" but I prefer the natural wood look with Danish oil finish on fretwork because of this.. I do like a nice cleared surface on a piece of furniture like a table etc.. but not for fretwork stuff.. Maybe it's my picky eye for spraying cars all those years that those fret cutouts don't have an even coat on like the rest of the piece has.. Even if I dip in Danish oil and then try to top coat it.. I don't like it.. I can clearly see a difference in the cutouts than the surface and it sticks out to me like a cut off thumb or something , LOL So what's a "good" wood finish / sealer to protect a piece like my clocks I make? that isn't a sprayed finish.. Keep doing the Danish oil as i've been doing for years? I used to use beeswax / mineral oil mix.. but everyone said it's not a finish and will dry out over time.. it sorta made sense to me so I don't use it much at all anymore and went back to using Danish oil..as it's easy and it says finish and seals the wood.. I want to make top quality wood clocks.. that look good for years.. I have my own personal clock that I made back in 2008 that has the mineral oil and beeswax on it.. still looks like it did before.. I have another that I tried re-coating the beeswax on and it did look fresh ( wet looking so to speak ) for a few days but it still looks great otherwise.. we've dusted them with soap and water several times a year and in my opinion I almost feel like the Beeswax mix is a finish because of this.. but what do I know.. I do feel the look is more glowing or whatever with the beeswax mix.. over the Danish oil.. but I also want durability which I've been told would be better with the Danish oil.. so that's what I do now.. Picture of Waco oil to show it says Finish and sealer.. Again, not trying to argue with your statement it's not a finish.. I'm just trying to learn why you all say it.. what don't I know about it.

Danish oil is a finish and has poly in it.. BUT.. it's not a very large amount of poly.. you'd have to dip and dry it 4-5 times to get about the same as 1-2 coats of spray poly on it.. On certain projects I do top coat with another 1-2 coats of poly..but very few of them.. and usually if I'm not in a rush to get a order out.. I will dip a project 2-3 or sometimes more times to get a poly build up on it.. spray finishes do not get evenly coated and sealed in fret cutouts.. hence the dipping several times is a better choice IMHO... That said.. Danish oil is not a good choice for "top coating" as Dan said.. but it is a finish

could it be wrapped with black electrical tape? I guess super glue might work as well but I'd be afraid of it not coming off if / when you might need it to..

Been really busy with Fathers Day orders since about 4 weeks ago.. Not a order yet today.. which is actually kind of nice maybe I'll get caught up so I can sort through my stickered lumber pile as I want to move it inside up in the upstairs of my shop and up on top of the rafters.. Probably about 500 bdft to move.. Be a day of exercise since I'm taking it from all the way from the end of my property ( probably 500ft to my shop and then upstairs and up a ladder to the top, LOL.. Think I'll take my chainsaw and chop the 12 footers in half.. maybe even the 10 ft ones.. Free lumber from my brothers mill I got last year.. not sure how good a deal free is when I have to sticker it move it.. move it again then sort it and move it again.. then it's rough cut so i have to plane it.. maybe resaw it and plane it again, LOL.. Probably worth it since most of it is birdseye hard maple and walnut..

Just curious, but what brand of spirals and type do you use? I have used a lot of different spirals and while I think Olsen brand is probably the most aggressive and shredding as you called it blade of all of them.. Behind the Olsen would be the standard FD spirals.. They are also slight shredders but I don't think nearly as bad as the Olsen's .. The best one I've used is the FD New Spiral.. Also to mention about the blade sizes.. I use much smaller spiral blade on a project as I would with a straight blade.. So normally with a flat blade if I was to use a #3 or 5.. I would use a #2/0 spiral.. If I was to use the same number in a spiral ie #3.. they do a lot of shredding etc.. and leave a rough edge.... I rarely use anything other than a 2/0.. but once in a great while I bump up to a number 1.. I bought sample packs way back in 2006-7.. still have all the larger sizes.. learned real quick that I do not like the rough cut of the larger sized spirals.. For me.. the 2/0 FD New Spiral is way less aggressive than the Ultra Reverse blade would be.. I actually try to stay away from a reverse tooth blade on any real fragile works.. especially the UR with the reverse tooth all the way up the blade.. those reverse teeth like to grab the edges of the wood.. can be like cutting with the blade upside down.. Now.. I do use them a lot.. even on fragile works as you say.. but for someone new to thin stock and fragile cutting.. I wouldn't think that would be a very good choice.. For the record.. I've also used the Pegas spirals.. They cut good.. but for me on the Hawks.. I tend to break them a lot.. they run a bit smaller in size..so a 2/0 is more like a 3/0 in a FD brand.. and I've only bought a sample pack of the Pegas to try.. I may switch when I need to order again.. but I really don't use them often and have nearly a gross of the FD-NS on hand so.. probably 5 years or more, LOL They do great in my EX-21.. but just break a lot of them with the Hawk..

Some folks use tape and will try taping some of the pieces back in place to help make it more stable while cutting those real fragile areas out too.. I've done it a couple times where I "think" it helped.. As I got ahead of myself in cutting once or twice and cut out some of the surrounding more stable areas before I realized that I did that.. so I believe it does help some in doing that.. Depends on the portrait as to what blade I use.. I use both spiral and scroll reverse type blades just depends on the design and wood I choose.. I find it also can help stabilize a fretwork piece by stack cutting more than one layer.. I almost always stack cut anyway but not always.. Being if you've never cut fretwork or thin material it might make things easier for you to stack cut.. If using a spiral blade.. I almost exclusively use the Flying Dutchman NS- ( New Spiral ) number 2/0 ..and I typically use a Pegas MG ( modified geometry ) #3 or other brand reverse tooth blade in a size around a #2 - #3 ish.. If you're not going to stack cut you could drop to a #1 or so too I suppose.. depending on what you have and how fast or aggressive you like to cut..

Yes it is.. the wooden one anyway .. but not for long as I'll be mailing it out to the customer this week..

Yes, I agree.. we are both always there but the last couple years I had to make it a short day and just go in for the deals at scoot back home.. Now that my youngest has a drivers license I don't have to make sure to get him to and from school etc.. so now I should be able to make it a whole day and actually enjoy the events of the wood expo besides the deals on the lumber..

That's why we make wooden ones, LOL

Everyone, I meet up with at the local shows and craft shows etc.. doesn't even have internet or not a computer tech enough to use the web much but their spouse or someone does.. however they seem to not have any interest in it.. They don't know what they are missing with all the other great people and also many great pattern designs etc.. Some are online and I tell them about the village etc.. but they don't seem interested..

My EX-21 is just starting to do this as well... I remember doing this many times with my old DeWalt.. the tube got to a point where it was getting too short to do much good.. I sold it before actually having to replace some of the hose.. I have seen where others have added a hose shoved up inside the flex hose to add length to it.. I always used the boiling water to heat it.. ( didn't have a heat gun at the time ) and I also would use a drop of dish soap to help slide the thing back onto the metal part.. I'm not certain it helped though as being in hot water and then wet still and then adding soap made the thing hard to hold onto while trying to push it back on.. I believe there is a special tool for doing those things.. but I've always been able to get it with hot and soapy, LOL

I agree with Dan.. When I first got my EX-21 I was surprised how much vibration it had just sitting it on a bench.. then I had mounted it to a cheap HF stand that I had another tool mounted on at one time but sold the tool and kept the stand.. stand footprint was too small so I bolted a piece of plywood on it.. It had more vibration mounted to that stand than it did just setting on a bench.. Finally I picked up a actual EX-21 stand and what a difference... All that said.. I think a nice heavy built wood stand would work pretty well provided you mount the saw in the center of it to distribute the weight to the stand and legs evenly..

I've used a lot of different glues to glue the clock to the base.. and one day while shopping at Menards I ran across the tite bond translucent glue.. I've been using it exclusively for a couple years now and really like it.. That said.. I've never had any issues with any other wood glues in the past.. I've used a lot of different name brands..

So yesterday I had a repeat customer ask about making a 1965 Corvette ( her dad is a car collector and I've made them about 8 - 10 clocks they tell me each one get's more detail ) and asked me if I would be able to do the side pipes and the wheels, LOL.. Just so happen that I recently ordered the "Stingray " puzzle from Scott not long ago.. that has side pipes and the wheel style they was looking for.. I asked about having the word cut out and showed the pattern to them.. They liked the idea but I said I would cut both ways and see what way they like it.. I intended to show her both today but the first cut I messed up the cutting in the back wheel and it fell apart, LOL.. I gotta say.. the puzzle version is much easier to cut because to make this a clock I had to shrink the size of the car down by about 35% which makes all the cutting smaller and the distance between some bridges etc. much smaller too.. Hoping since I showed them just the one maybe they'll just want it and i won't need to make the other, LOL... actually now that I've cut it once or twice I know tricks and what to watch out for so it won't be as bad next time.. I didn't show the side view of their car as they was in it for those photos... but this view shows the side pipes and wheels.. I'll show the finished piece once it's done.. Might be a few more days as I've got a Nova order and a Plymouth GTX order to do.. that just came in..

That is some great work you've done... He is going to love that..

I have the Nextwave Shark HD4.. They used to make a small unit that was called the Piranha which a basic unit was about $1500.. I see they no longer make this model but have replaced it with a different name.. I think it's about the same thing though.. I see they also have a very small desktop looking one for about $1200.. As for advise, I don't have a lot to offer because I'm really quite new to using them.. even though I've had mine for 2 years.. I've only made about a dozen things on it.. My main business is scroll work.. and I don't want to change it into a CNC type work business at this time.. I feel I need a lot more experience with it before I jump on that train.. and the scroll work really keeps me hopping which is a big reason I haven't used it much.. Every time I get a day that i think I'll sit down and mess with the CNC.. a custom order or something comes in that is scroll work.. Everyone is different but in my opinion.. the water cooled spindle for the CNC is a must have.. I see guys on the CNC groups saying they've burnt up another router.. some of them claim they put a new router in it every 6 months.. ( they are production working the machines ).. But just from the noise level between the router and the spindle is worth the extra cost in my opinion.. I'd not be able to stand listening the the router noise all day long in a shop.. The spindle is so quiet you don't even hardly hear it run.. other than the bit carving is all you really hear... There are some other folks on here with other brands etc.. maybe if you start a new topic in the other forum section someone with more experience would give some good advise.. Here is a link to some of Nextwave products and CNC's that might be of interest.. The SharkHD510 is probably the closest to what I have.. You could go talk to Matt at LLJohnson's Workbench in Charlotte MI.. That is where I got mine. he is quite helpful and runs them in his own shop.. https://www.rockler.com/power-tools/cnc-machines-and-laser-machines/next-wave

Thank you

Thank you Marg, They are all scrolled.. The one with a base on it is a smaller clock so I had to shrink the text down quite a lot and the details are someone lost in it etc.. plus the angle of the picture makes it looked carved.. If I ever make it again I'd probably size it up some to show the details better..

Yeah you're right.. there are a lot of different cars.. not only that.. some folks get picky and ask me if I can make it have flames since her hubby's car has flames painted on it.. or this wheel style rather than that.. LOL.. Most times I decline getting that technical unless they want to pay a substantial amount more, LOL Thank you for the comments

Yeah, I get to the shows now and then too, I like to actually go sit somewhere near the show when it ends.. kinda fun watching them leave the shows.. and you can just sit in the A/C in the car and watch them drive by, LOL.. As for making money around here selling the clocks at shows... Coming from a person that likes building cars.. I think I can speak for most of them car guys at the show, but they'd never spend the money on a clock with all the car parts they sell at the shows.. They're there to spend money for car parts and won't spend a dime towards a clock or T-shirt etc.. The clocks I sell are 99.9% sold to women buying a gift for their husband / boyfriend / or Teenager... about .01% of my sales actually goes to a guy buying the clock, LOL.. In fact, I think a couple years back someone here got a spot at a car show and had 1-2 sales that only covered the booth and both sales was to women, LOL.. Thank you for the comments

Thank you!

Thank you!