hotshot

I don't think there would be any issue with any part. I'm betting there isnt' a part in the whole Pegas saw that wouldn't work in your chinese EX21. If they just changed tolerances, I would think that would have the same effect as what they are hoping to gain for the Pegas saw. Might tighten up your saw.

Yep, on the other forum, Bob said they tightened up the tollerances on some of those parts, so I would definatley try to go with Pegas parts, unless the manufacturer just tightened up the tollerances across the whole line per Pegas feedback to them. It is really exciting to see Pegas continues to innovate.

It could be worse, meaning, if they shutdown this business to focus on some of their newer purchased businesses, then that 5 month wait just went to never. (They do more than farming). If I was a Hawk owner, I would be very worried. That said, it's not costing them a lot to keep this business "on the books" as it doesn't seem to take much of their focus. In my "ideal" scenario, a business ran by a "Scroll Saw" enthusiast and wise businessman with some deep pockets, buys out the rights to the scroll saw, and "focuses" on that business, like "Seyco" or "Advanced". I know Advanced and Seyco sell a few other items, but both business are scrollsaw centric, and when I talk to them, they are experts in the products they sell, and always have parts. Personally, I would try to resurrect the G4 design, and work to improve that saw iteratively over time. (I personally was very concerned about how the aluminum frame of the BM attached to the table/legs via slotted holes, and a few other things that were not optimal. I would become "tight" to this community and use community feedback to gauge my success with the product, customer support, and marketing. No one knows the hobby or Hawks like the people that frequent this forum. Even without any of those "dream" scenarios, if the current owners would just actively participate in these discussions (and yes, some of that criticism would be hard to take), maybe they would be motivated to regain focus on this business, and try to "turn it around." If they don't change a few things, but keep it alive in their current zombied state, I fear the brand will lose all relevance. In my experience dealing with them, and trying give a few suggestions, they have been defensive, but never open to criticism. I'm rooting for a comeback, but not seeing anything that resembles a heartbeat from Bushton. ----Randy

Thanks for the best wishes -----Randy

From my time working with them, I dont' think all parts require a wait. From what I understand, they do larger "runs" on specific parts. It doesn't make a lot of sense to do all the setup for something, and only do a few parts. And some things they have a excess of, from the RBI days. For example, if your saw came with short legs, they still have an abundance of the longer legs in storage, painted and finished by RBI. You can get those pretty quickly. Clamp knobs and the most common components, I think they do larger runs with, when their machines are working. I think there are things to be concerned with, but just saying, there is a good chance they have the clamp knobs and that type of thing.

As machinists, I don't think they understood castings used in the G4s and I'm sure the G4 was cost prohibitive, especially at their volumes. They understood milling, so they tried to take the ultra platform forward, and relabeled BM. This was unfortunate I think. I've not heard a lot new coming from them lately. I suspect the scroll saw side of their business is "coasting"

I don't think you will be happy with 1/4" cutting on the K40. Laser focus is very precise, so as you go deeper, things get funky. You could possibly re-focus the laser at different depths to get a cleaner cut. It will be interesting to see what you can do with the K40 on thicker stuff when you get to it.

I think Denny is going to be the new Mike Moorlach!

If it were not so cheap, I would definitely say pass. But at $80, it almost becomes disposable. The motor connector arm that broke on my Hegner was about that price. The problem is those clamps. I bet the pegas clamps would fit too if you wanted to double the price of that saw. If this becomes a door stop, your loss would be minimal, and if you get a year or 10 out of it, then you win. Still, the clamps concern me.

I'm a bit younger than you I think, but that 54 lbs of awkward weight, though lighter than your Hawk, is still putting my back at risk everytime I move it. Right now, it is my best option, so I'm dealing with it. I do like that weight though, when I'm actually using it, and need the weight to stifle the vibration. ------Randy

Patrice, this is hard question and I don't know how meaningful that price difference will be for you. I have both sizes and I prefer the larger because for the reason I gave prior, but I don't know if that irritation is worth the price difference for you. If you go with the 16, you will settle into a "Rythm" of changing/tensioning the blades. If you cut a huge amount of volume, it might be worth it to go larger, and some day you might want to try to cut something large. If the cost of either of these saws is going to "hurt", in your position I would probably look for a used DW788 to see if you are really going to want to do this. The tensioning mechanism is adjustable, and found it trivial to set the correct tension, and faster than on the 16". There are a lot of Dewalt users out there using Jeweler blades. There are a few positives and negatives about the Dewalt, but I liked the one I had. I sold it because I ran out of room . . . and had "Five" scrollsaws stealing my space.

Oh, very interesting. Pick up some 4/0 Jeweler blades, crank the speed, and see how it does. I would be very interested to see how this works.

There is one very practical advantage of the 21" that has nothing to do with capacity. Because of the longer arm of the 21, there is a little more flex, and a little less tension, at least that is what I have experienced on mine. So when I started using the 16", as soon as I tightened, the blades would snap from too much tension. It's not a huge problem to fix, but it takes a little different method to load. Here is a video I did some time back that demonstrates the issue, and how to resolve on the 16" models.

My BM did not start out full on. If I had the speed set on slow, it would start slow. As a matter of fact, it had the ability to run the slowest of any saw I've ever run. Not sure how practical those speeds are, but I thought it was cool that it could do it. When I'm talking about small blades, I'm not talking about 2/0 regular blades. For metal thicknesses of coins, I don't run above "2/0 Jewelers" and on high detail typically 3/0 to 6/0. On Amazon, buy you a pack of "Pike 3/0 Jewelers blades" or smaller, then give those a shot on the very slowest speed. Then start cranking it up . . . . you will see what I mean. Same thing for Hegner. You should be able to get a gross of these on Amazon for about $19. By the way, Pike is the Pegas line of Jeweler Blades. But that said, again, I have to emphasize that unless you are cutting very detailed items like coins, there are a whole range of metal blades that are not in the "Jeweler Class" that will handle the Hegner and Hawk a lot better. Using a shorter Arm Hawk would also lessen the stress on the blades. If you have a shorter arm version, you might see how that fares.

My take: Top arms on Hegner and Hawk are both driven on the downstroke by the blade itself, so using very fine Jeweler blades is a huge problem. You can crank down the speed to minimize the "jerk" on the blades, and one cutter I know of cuts with the Hawk and does this very thing, but in my opinion, those slow speeds are incredibly frustrating. Depending on what you are cutting, you can most likely get by with the larger non-Jeweler blades, which would be a lot more Hawk/Hegner friendly. A note about Jeweler blades on the Hegner, if you go this direction, this requires special small Hegner clamps for the bottom, available from Advanced. I've done most of my cutting on the old Green Ex-21, and Added the King 16" as my travel saw. I've also owned the Dewalt and it is very well suited for Jeweler blades also. I have many many hours on Ex-21, and have zero failures other than the clamp stripping from over tightening. I've now upgraded to Pegas. If it were me personally, for this specific type of work, I would stick to the DeWalt/Pegas/King/Seyco/etc type saws. --------Randy

They do "runs" on various parts, and don't seem to keep a lot of parts/motors, and such in stock. I found the ladies there a pleasure to work with, but as you said, several aspects of their business is not run in a way I would consider professional. If you are in a hurry, you are in for a frustrating ride. If you have multiple saws for a backup, it's not as big a deal. That said, I've been waiting longer than that on parts from Delta (and am still waiting). I could get equivilent DW parts, but I have multiple saws, and am not in a hurry and curious to see how it plays out. In my book, Delta is doing the same thing, except they don't have nice ladys to talk to. This doesn't excuse either company, but just pointing out as an interesting comparison. -----Randy

Just a clarification on who is making what . . . . and stuff. All EX type saws except Excalibur, are made in the same factory in Taiwan, these include Jet, Seyco, King, Excelsior, Axminster, Pegas, and Carbatec. This is the same factory that made Excalibur when it originally left Canada many years ago. After the move to Taiwan, there were some improvements/tweaks to the design, then a few years later, starting with the anniversary edition, further changes. So the Taiwan factory was the original factory for the last two design iterations. This is why I don't consider saws coming from the Taiwan factory Knock-Offs. There are a few differences in Jet and Seyco (and clamps on Pegas), but the guts of these saws are very similar. King Canada markets the same saw as "Excelsior" in Canada, and "King" in the U.S. When General (owner of Excalibur brand) got a new owner from China, there was some "drama" between General (Excalibur) and this Taiwan factory, so General tried to move manufacturing to a factory in China. That transition did not go well, and quality out of the Chinese factory is very suspect. Seyco will not support any saw made in China, so luckily, there doesn't seem to be a lot of New Excaliburs out there. I suppose it is just semantics, but I do not consider saws coming off the same manufacturing line as they have for years knockoffs, but think of those as re-brands. Not sure what to call the version of Excalibur that is now coming out of China, but they certainly don't deserve the Excalibur name.

Well, actually, only Excalibur is made in China. All these re-brands are Taiwan, from the same factory Ex was made in prior to their last move. Taiwan has a better reputation with quality. Delta is currently very problematic for OEM parts. I've had the latest model Delta scroll saw with parts on back order for about 3 months now. Thankfully, many critical parts are identical to the DW788s.

Hawkeye, I thought you dropped off the earth. Good to hear from you. Hope all is going well. ----------Randy

I think you did good! My hands are not shakey, but that painting is better than I'm capable of. ---Randy

Leshko, in the U.S., many many families have gardens where they grow multitudes of vegetables and fruits. There maybe some rules in some "rich" neighborhoods, but I have never heard of any in the communities where I have lived. I've had a garden at every house I've ever lived in. That said, I have always lived in the Central States, in medium sized to small towns. There there may be some weird laws in some large cities, and in the far East or far West, I'm not sure. Gardens in U.S. towns are usually in the back yard, so there may be restrictions in some places that restrict front yard gardens that detract from the neighborhood aesthetics. I have heard of some town rules that restrict livestock (chickens and such). Even in large cities, where there isn't land for individual gardens, some places have community gardens.

Any progress on the Hockey Stick issue? ---Randy

Not sure what your prior saw was, but if you have never used an upper tier saw, the first moments on an EX or DW style saw are a little shocking/magical. I still remember my first moments on the EX, I just couldn't believe it. Then the first blade change, I really really couldn't believe it. I can still feel that magic all these years later. And I know it doesn't help the performance . . . . but that Pegas color scheme is breathtaking. And I've met Denny at Artcrafters, wonderful store, wonderful person. -------Randy

Yep, I removed it from my King also, but the holes remain, which occasionally catch a small piece. -----Randy

Denny, do you see any differences in the new pegas vs old ex with pegas clamps? If you have the green ex, then it wouldn’t have the dust collection holes in the table, but was interested if there were “new” enhancements. I would really like to see pegas innovate as they did with the clamps. They really need to fix the dust collection mechanism if they haven’t already. i have the king with that dust control stuff, and prefer the green ex without it.