show update

[3Dface]

 

the superman celebration was great! not only did i meet some good people but was a good investment.

day one i sold out of almost all superman stuff. every high dollar item sold but the highest. my sons of anarchy poster did not sell but word spread and some people said they heard about it out on the street and had to see it. that also prompted sales

i already reserved my space for next year and started on more superman prep. i have another show in oct and decided for now that these 2 shows are good for now.

thanks for all your incite , and again you are all great people.

 

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

OK I have to ask because this topic is being talked about in other threads here. Have you ever run into problems with copyright personnel being this is a specific event and advertised as such.  Have any copyright lawyers visited the show and questioned vendors because Superman is truely a copyright character.  Just curious.

[3Dface]

I have known the owners of the Superman meuseum for years. Many years ago I made a mask that is on display and talked to them about that. Unless you are in "mass production" of some type it is seen by marvel and others as "fan art". 

In others words they see it as free advertising of their holding and leave the little guy alone. 

When I buy a comic, Alter it and resell it it is no different that selling it second hand untouched.

Pictures of actors also fall into this because they are public figures.

 

[kmmcrafts]

Glad to hear you did very well.. One day I might try the craft show thing again.. 

I wonder how many pieces is considered mass produced, and who is to judge that term.. I also wonder if the museum people really have talked to them about it.. going off of he said she said etc without actual consent is probably not something that'd hold up in a court case should you ever run into a issue.. I'm not trying to disagree with what you said.. I wish all companies would allow small time crafters enjoy and make the things they are passionate about.. But then again.. there has to be a limit to it for those mass production types crafters / business's  etc.. Then how does one know how many pieces they've made and sold.. If there is a set limit. who would be one to try to keep track of that? They have a hard enough time keeping up with infringing manufactures / sellers to keep them at bay.. It'd be nice if they made these copyright laws at least clear as mud.. but it's not even close to that clear, LOL   Each party has an agenda.. they have theirs to keep mass producers at bay.. you have yours to make something fun and hope someone will pay you a little for your time and effort... a friend or store owner has theirs hoping they get a little of your profits by getting you as a vendor.. they aren't at risk.. because they can point the finger to the manufacture..

We as scroll sawyers many times think we are safe because the pattern designer made and sold the pattern.. so the finished product is what we think a safe item to sell.. and if you get caught up in a mess... pointing a finger at the designer probably isn't going to get you out of trouble.. It may get the designer in trouble too.. but first they are going to deal with the issue at hand .. then go to the designer.. in other words.. the bottom line is the maker...that's selling.. either the finished piece or the pattern.. 

When I had a Mustang ( Steve Good Pattern ) clock taken down.. I actually had permission to sell it in a round about way.. much like you say about Mavel doesn't care about the little guy.. as long as they aren't mass producing them.. I made and sold about 7-8 of those clocks.. is that considered mass produced?  When these firms go through Etsy looking for infringing items.. how do they know if the seller has permission? How do they know if you're small time crafter or a mass producer selling under multi pal aliases.. All they do is sweep the page for certain companies that hire them to seek out infringers.. and that's what the company is paid to do buy the copyright holder.. They just search the web / craft shows just as you do to look for said items..

All I'm saying is.. If you know you're doing questionable work.. or suspect it.. OR have permission to sell it.... still expect at some point to be questioned by someone.. Whether it's just a slap on the hand and take it down or a lawsuit or just showing written documents that you have permission.... That could depend on what side of the bed the copyright owner got up on for the day.. he may just slap the hand for a dozen people that are in fact mass producing and nail you to the wall when you only make 1-2 pieces.. LOL  IF there is no written permission.. it's basically their discretion as to where the go with it.. Just because they let John Doe off the hook and then John Doe tells other crafters.. Oh they don't care they just said not to mass produce,  doesn't give everyone the clear to make the said items..    

  

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Kevin in alot of words that you used it is summed up to who really knows what the laws are because as I said before, all Grey areas and there is no one here or on any other site that can explain it with authority and truth. We all have to do what we feel is proper and it makes sense. This conversation has been going on for over 30 years that I have been involved with craft shows and selling. What is happening on ebay and other sites has not been challenged in a court of law as far as I know so the bullys throw their weight around. Others crumble and pass this on. We do not have the funds to fight so we all back down. I say it again that unless I have a piece of legal paper in my hand that is when I will take notice and listen. Otherwise I will continue on the same path I have taken for over 30 years now. 

Chris, thank you for answering my question and continued good success. Something of this size would surely bring out the hounds and if you are and the owners are doing well with it then good for you guys. 

[Phantom Scroller]

Love the 3d look on the frames great set up. Roly

[3Dface]

On 6/18/2019 at 9:10 AM, kmmcrafts said:

Glad to hear you did very well.. One day I might try the craft show thing again.. 

I wonder how many pieces is considered mass produced, and who is to judge that term.. I also wonder if the museum people really have talked to them about it.. going off of he said she said etc without actual consent is probably not something that'd hold up in a court case should you ever run into a issue.. I'm not trying to disagree with what you said.. I wish all companies would allow small time crafters enjoy and make the things they are passionate about.. But then again.. there has to be a limit to it for those mass production types crafters / business's  etc.. Then how does one know how many pieces they've made and sold.. If there is a set limit. who would be one to try to keep track of that? They have a hard enough time keeping up with infringing manufactures / sellers to keep them at bay.. It'd be nice if they made these copyright laws at least clear as mud.. but it's not even close to that clear, LOL   Each party has an agenda.. they have theirs to keep mass producers at bay.. you have yours to make something fun and hope someone will pay you a little for your time and effort... a friend or store owner has theirs hoping they get a little of your profits by getting you as a vendor.. they aren't at risk.. because they can point the finger to the manufacture..

We as scroll sawyers many times think we are safe because the pattern designer made and sold the pattern.. so the finished product is what we think a safe item to sell.. and if you get caught up in a mess... pointing a finger at the designer probably isn't going to get you out of trouble.. It may get the designer in trouble too.. but first they are going to deal with the issue at hand .. then go to the designer.. in other words.. the bottom line is the maker...that's selling.. either the finished piece or the pattern.. 

When I had a Mustang ( Steve Good Pattern ) clock taken down.. I actually had permission to sell it in a round about way.. much like you say about Mavel doesn't care about the little guy.. as long as they aren't mass producing them.. I made and sold about 7-8 of those clocks.. is that considered mass produced?  When these firms go through Etsy looking for infringing items.. how do they know if the seller has permission? How do they know if you're small time crafter or a mass producer selling under multi pal aliases.. All they do is sweep the page for certain companies that hire them to seek out infringers.. and that's what the company is paid to do buy the copyright holder.. They just search the web / craft shows just as you do to look for said items..

All I'm saying is.. If you know you're doing questionable work.. or suspect it.. OR have permission to sell it.... still expect at some point to be questioned by someone.. Whether it's just a slap on the hand and take it down or a lawsuit or just showing written documents that you have permission.... That could depend on what side of the bed the copyright owner got up on for the day.. he may just slap the hand for a dozen people that are in fact mass producing and nail you to the wall when you only make 1-2 pieces.. LOL  IF there is no written permission.. it's basically their discretion as to where the go with it.. Just because they let John Doe off the hook and then John Doe tells other crafters.. Oh they don't care they just said not to mass produce,  doesn't give everyone the clear to make the said items..    

  

this has a lot of great info and enplanes it much better than i.

https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2010/05/13/the-messy-world-of-fan-art-and-copyright/

[orangeman]

Prime target for copyright lawyers!

I did a batman puzzle for one show last year and it flew out the booth.

Decided not to do it anymore because of the copyright issue.

"Theft by taking" is a criminal offense.

bb