Any new opinions on seyco vs pegas. I noticed same ? From Oct. Any new info.

[BroBri]

Hi my name is Brian.  I'm selling my RBI Hawk 226vs.  Don't like the blade clamps much.  After reading a thread from Oct. About seyco vs pegas I was leaning towards pegas.  However I sent a email to Ray at Seyco and he called me. I really like him.  Seyco is on sale with free shipping.  It makes the saws about the same price with stand.  $900+ is A LOTof money for me.  I don't want to make a mistake.  I want a saw that I can pass down to my grandkids.  They want to do scroll work.  Pegas has a lot of distributera, there is only one Seyco.  Ray appears to be a older gentlemen.  If Ray retires and me or my grandkids need help in 5-10 years who do you go to for help.  Another ? I have is it appears that Ray is really a fan of Seyco's blade tilt.  Seyco's site points out the difference in tilt mechanisms kind of like the rack in pinion style of tilt like Excalibur, pegas, jet.  But I haven't scrolled that much yet so I honestly don't understand why the rack in pinion would be so bad.  I feel Ray at Seyco would know best so I feel like just trusting him but at $900+ I really would like any more advice you all might have.  I know this ? Was asked 4 months ago.  Perhaps a lot of people have purchased these saws or had more time on them to give me more input.  Oh and what's the best way to break the news to your wife that you're spending $900+ on a saw.

Thanks Brian

[BroBri]

Okay, ive been able to find a lot in your forums about seyco and pegas.  Still afraid to make that $900 decision

[meflick]

Glad you found so,e more information. Regarding the Pegas saw, I would recommend reaching out to Denny @Denny Knappen here on the forums. He is an official Pegas distributor and can probably answer most of your questions on the Pegas saw. If he cannot, he will be able to put you in touch with someone who can. If I were in the market for a Pegas saw, I would definitely be giving Denny a call. Several members here have purchased one through Denny and from what I have seen, seem very pleased with the pricing and service received from Denny. I know Denny is quite experienced as a scroller and from what I have seen over the years on the forums, is honest and will tell you what he knows and admit what he doesn’t.

That said, I don’t own a Pegas. I have two saws in the shop. My primary saw is the Seyco saw. The other is a used Excalibur. Both saws were purchased from Ray at Seyco. As you have learned, Ray is quite knowledgeable and legendary in the scroll saw world. I have owned my Seyco for almost 3 years now. It is one of the first Seyco saws produced and distributed. It has been a great saw and I always knew it was backed by Ray and service, if ever needed, would be handled well from all I heard. I didn’t have to “convince” my better half to let me spend the money, as he is the one who bought it for me for a combined birthday/Mother’s Day gift since they are a week apart usually. However, if I were in the market now, I would definitely be checking out the Pegas. I will confess that it has crossed my mind what happens when Ray retires. perhaps that is a question you can ask Ray if it is really concerning for you.

Given the really short period of time both saws have been out on the market, I don’t think you will find too many, if any, who have owned and used both saws. From what I know and see on the forums, I don’t think you would go wrong with either saw and I think either is something that can be passed down to the next generation should they be interested.

in the end, only you can decide what feels right for you and if you are willing to spend $900+ on a saw. I think you would be quite pleased, and if you use it to make your wife and family beautiful gifts, she will be happy too. Good luck. Let us know what you do, and if, when you get the new saw, show us what you are doing with it.

[Denny Knappen]

Thanks Melanie for the recommendation.  I will second what was said about Ray.  I bought my 30th Anniversary EX21 from Ray and excellent follow up service.  Yes we are all getting older, bur as I understand, Ray's son is also in the scroll saw business.

Now as for the Pegas, the one thing that stands out, Pegas Chuck Heads.  They are extra light and easy to use.  The chassis is reinforced which reduces vibration.  There is a special coating on the table which enables the wood to glide smoothly.  As for the rack and pinion tilting head, I due a fair amount of angle cuts and I find it works perfectly.  If you have other questions, contact me at: info@artcraftersdayton.com

[kmmcrafts]

I've also thought a lot about those two saws.. and really it's going to be one persons opinion vrs. another.. I have a Excalibur and added the Pegas blade clamps.. Built really well... and something Ray has worked with scroll saws for a lot of years and has a lot of experience to know what scrollers want / like and made his own design ( The Seyco ) ... that said Pegas has been taking feedback and is currently working to make add-on's to their current saw.. This tells me they are listening to what people are wanting and hey "want to" improve and be one of the top saw manufactures.. They will be releasing a larger table option close to the size table of the Seyco and they are also working on a dust collection system..

While Ray' is getting older and also his son may take over.. but this doesn't mean his son will have the same business ethics as Ray does.. Pegas has many different distributors.. so if something happens to Denny or one of the other suppliers.. there should be another to fall back on.. 

I think you'd not go wrong with either saw... but I have to say.. I really like the Pegas for the blade clamps and the epoxy table coating.. I do not like the table tilt mechanism of the Seyco.. but these are all just personal preference things.. I've seen many people say they don't care for it.. I don't have personal experience with the Seyco or the Pegas.. ( other than the clamp upgrade for my Excalibur ) but what I've seen and read over the years when I'm ready for a saw.. It'll be a Pegas..  

[tomsteve]

is there any chance the parts that might need replacing on pegas and seyco  might interchange?

looking up parts for the pegas online, all i find is the blade clamps.

[dgman]

Take into consideration that both saws share the same internal parts as they are both manufactured by the same company, in the same factory, on the same line. The main difference between the two saws are the table size and tilting method and of course the blade clamps. I’m confident parts will be available for years to come.

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, tomsteve said:

is there any chance the parts that might need replacing on pegas and seyco  might interchange?

looking up parts for the pegas online, all i find is the blade clamps.

 

4 minutes ago, dgman said:

Take into consideration that both saws share the same internal parts as they are both manufactured by the same company, in the same factory, on the same line. The main difference between the two saws are the table size and tilting method and of course the blade clamps. I’m confident parts will be available for years to come.

Bob Duncan says all parts EXCEPT the rocker arm is the same parts.. The Rocker Arm was redesigned and uses a smaller bearing with tighter tolerances.. and the obvious other difference is the blade clamps.. Also believe the tilting mechanism is slightly different but that's not really a wear part..  I believe all the front rocker arms etc are the same as the Delta and DeWalt.. but I'm not certain of that..

[hotshot]

Brian, Seyco is great, and most parts should be interchangeable with King/Pegas/Axminster/Carbatec and etc

However, as for supporting a saw a very long time, Seyco quit supporting the older style saws a long time ago.  Before buying a saw from Seyco, I asked Ray about the stability of "General, the makers of the EX21", and he said it was as stable as any, and in just a few years afterwards, his supply dried up, and he didn't sell much of anything until the Jet sufaced, then later his own branded saw.  This is not to say Ray isn't great, and I'm glad I purchased my first EX from him, but no one knows what will happen with any company over time.  Hawk and Hegner has support for their very old saws, but I wouldn't bet 2 cents Bushton will be around in 10 years.

I would go with a Pegas because I really enjoy that style of saw and believe you will also enjoy it, and if it makes it to your grandkids, that would be great.  But, I wouldn't expect 20 years of support for it.  Live in the moment   If you really want something that is going to be supported forever, and is rock solid, get yourself a Hegner, but even then, nothing is a sure bet.  (for the price of a Hegner, if you buy the Pegas, put the balance of that money in savings, then your grandkids could buy whatever the latest and greatest is at that time)

-----Randy

Edited February 14, 2020 by hotshot

[BroBri]

Okay, ive talked to Dennis, he was very helpful. I emailed Steve Good. He spent a lot of time writing me a very helpful email.  It looks like Pegas will be a better saw for my grandkids.  It appears the saw will be more user friendly.  It looks like it might be a lot easier to assemble the Pegas.  Which will actually be better for me.  I had leukemia in 05 and my brain is still really foggy.  There are a lot of pegas owners on this site and they can talk to me if I have a problem.  I may have to get my saw from bear wood.  I'm WAY OVER on the west coast.  The shipping from Tennessee may be over $250.  I am waiting to hear from Dennis for a final shipping cost.  If shipping is going to be to high I'll get the saw at bear and the blades from Dennis.

Thanks for everything

Brian

Edited February 14, 2020 by BroBri

[tgiro]

I got to use a Seyco a couple of weeks ago. A very nice saw. The way to change the head angle is different than the rack&pinion of the Excalibur/Pegas - not bad - just different. The only limitation I see is that the head will only tilt 30°. I use the scroll saw to cut rings for segmented bowls and I need a 45° angle.

The Pegas seems to be the top Excalibur clone for this year. Enhanced features and good manufacturer support.

Edited February 14, 2020 by tgiro

[Scrappile]

I think you would be very happy with either.  I have a Seyco.   Tgiro is correct, the head does not tilt as far as the Pegas.  Not a problem for me, but you would have to decide if it is for you.  I love the big table.  As far as the clamps. I have the Pegas clamps on mine, they are nice, but if I had it to do over again, I would not replace them until the time came that I really needed to replace the original clamps.  I got along fine with the original style clamps on my precious Excalibur and this Seyco.  I only changed them to be part of the end crowd.......   But, they are nice, not sure $100 nice, but it is just a matter of opinion.  I purchased the Seyco mainly because of the service I received from Seyco (Ray) when I purchased my Excalibur.  The Pegas wasn't out at the time I purchased my Seyco.  If it had been, the decision would have been more difficult. Not sure which way I would have gone.

If you want a saw to pass on to your grand children,,,,,, Hegner is the best bet.  I have a Hegner also, I do most my sawing on it.

[OCtoolguy]

18 hours ago, BroBri said:

Okay, ive talked to Dennis, he was very helpful. I emailed Steve Good. He spent a lot of time writing me a very helpful email.  It looks like Pegas will be a better saw for my grandkids.  It appears the saw will be more user friendly.  It looks like it might be a lot easier to assemble the Pegas.  Which will actually be better for me.  I had leukemia in 05 and my brain is still really foggy.  There are a lot of pegas owners on this site and they can talk to me if I have a problem.  I may have to get my saw from bear wood.  I'm WAY OVER on the west coast.  The shipping from Tennessee may be over $250.  I am waiting to hear from Dennis for a final shipping cost.  If shipping is going to be to high I'll get the saw at bear and the blades from Dennis.

Thanks for everything

Brian

Not sure what you mean by assembly Brian. Other than the stand that is. I've never purchased anything in the scroll saw world that required assembly because I've always bought used saws. But, as for the saw itself, I'm not sure what there is to assemble. Maybe the table if it is shipped unattached but that's nothing more than a few screws/bolts. Anyway, whatever saw you choose, you're going to love having a saw in this range of quality. 

 

[Scrappile]

@octoolguy,

As for assembly, the Seyco does require more assembly than the Pegas.  It was not difficult but the saw sorta fits into the stand and is part of it, where as the Pegas you just bolt it to the top of the stand.  I did it, and what really helped me was I watched the video that Steve Good made on putting it together... So you were told correctly.  More assembly required on the Seyco.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Scrappile

[BroBri]

There is a 1 year old larger hegner about 4 hours from me.  He may come down a bit.  Looks like it was used about 5 hours now sits.  He's wanting $1400. If he comes down quite a bit should I go for it.  Most talk about seyco, pegas, Excalibur and Dewalt.  Those that talk of hegner say it's a tank that will last forever.  I know I don't see them in Steve Goods shop, or in Judy Gale Roberts Shop to people that I've been following.  I had a older Hegner 14 and I hated changing blades.

[Scrappile]

If you hated changing blades on you older Hegner 14 you will hate changing blades on another one.  It is still the same clamps.  A "Quick Clamp" for the top arm makes it faster/easier to release the top of the blade and go to another hole, but changing from one blade to another still requires getting the clamp out, putting it in the holder and using the tool to loosen and tighten the blade into the bottom clamp.  I love my Hegner, my go to saw, but they are not for everyone that is for sure.  Also the table tilts not the head, which I would think would be a draw back for those that like to do inlay.  Lots do inlays with a Hegner, but I think the tilting head would be better for it.

Also, I appreciate your concerns for your grandchildren, but trust me, they may not even want your scroll saw or other tools after you go.  I know neither my children or grandchildren seem to be interested in any of mine, at least currently.   That is just the way life is.  But, I am saying, the longevity of a tool for that purpose would not be high on my list of concerns.  If my last until I can no longer use them,,, I will be very happy, and it look like they might make it...

Edited February 15, 2020 by Scrappile

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, Scrappile said:

@octoolguy,

As for assembly, the Seyco does require more assembly than the Pegas.  It was not difficult but the saw sorta fits into the stand and is part of it, where as the Pegas you just bolt it to the top of the stand.  I did it, and what really helped me was I watched the video that Steve Good made on putting it together... So you were told correctly.  More assembly required on the Seyco.

I forgot about that Paul. Thanks for correcting me. 

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, BroBri said:

There is a 1 year old larger hegner about 4 hours from me.  He may come down a bit.  Looks like it was used about 5 hours now sits.  He's wanting $1400. If he comes down quite a bit should I go for it.  Most talk about seyco, pegas, Excalibur and Dewalt.  Those that talk of hegner say it's a tank that will last forever.  I know I don't see them in Steve Goods shop, or in Judy Gale Roberts Shop to people that I've been following.  I had a older Hegner 14 and I hated changing blades.

That price is way too much. You can buy a brand new one for not much more. Also, the new ones have the quick release lever that makes changing holes a lot easier but the bottom clamp is still the same. Not a big deal actually because unless you break a blade or a blade goes dull, you won't have to worry about that. And you can preload a few blade holders so the change over is fast. The new Hegs are variable speed too. They are a great saw but if you are trying to stay under a grand, well that lets the Hegs out. The PS Woods saw is very similar to the Heg and about half the price. They are a great saw too. Same design. For what you intend to do, whether your kids want your tools or not, I'd go with the Pegas. They are a true knock off of the Excaliburs that used to be made either in Canada or Taiwan. The ones that are coming out of China are not the same quality. Buy a Pegas and never look back. I have two Ex's and I will have them until I'm dead and buried. I might come across a good used Hegner someday but until I do, I'll stick to what I have. Wanna buy a very nice Hawk 226VS Ultra? I've got one too many saws right now.

 

[BroBri]

Paul, I just messaged Kevin.  Told him I have a Pegas in the cart at bear wood.  Shipping from Dennis in Tennessee was going to cost to much to CA.  As I have mentioned I have a RBI Hawk Ultra 226vs.  I currently have it for sale for $350.  Hoping to get $300.  I'd like to have easier blade changes.  I've been hitting the village forums pretty hard.  It has crossed my mind to keep the RBI.  I've been advised that getting a extra scroll saw for grandkids may not be the best idea.  Kids can lose interest.  My grandkids do do craft woodwork a lot and would rather do something with their hands then watch tv.  I could bypass the whole $900+ saw and have 2-3 RBI saws for another$600.  Is using a Pegas or similar A lot easier then RBI.  What if a motor goes out Am I stuck.  From what I have heard from Kevin's post RBI is a company that isn't very responsive to its customers.  All I see on the bushton website is new saws and ultra blade clamps.  Should I go forward with the Pegas or consider the having a few RBI saws and several bottom clamps

[kmmcrafts]

20 hours ago, BroBri said:

Paul, I just messaged Kevin.  Told him I have a Pegas in the cart at bear wood.  Shipping from Dennis in Tennessee was going to cost to much to CA.  As I have mentioned I have a RBI Hawk Ultra 226vs.  I currently have it for sale for $350.  Hoping to get $300.  I'd like to have easier blade changes.  I've been hitting the village forums pretty hard.  It has crossed my mind to keep the RBI.  I've been advised that getting a extra scroll saw for grandkids may not be the best idea.  Kids can lose interest.  My grandkids do do craft woodwork a lot and would rather do something with their hands then watch tv.  I could bypass the whole $900+ saw and have 2-3 RBI saws for another$600.  Is using a Pegas or similar A lot easier then RBI.  What if a motor goes out Am I stuck.  From what I have heard from Kevin's post RBI is a company that isn't very responsive to its customers.  All I see on the bushton website is new saws and ultra blade clamps.  Should I go forward with the Pegas or consider the having a few RBI saws and several bottom clamps

This is my personal opinion so take that into consideration... But IF I was a hobbyist and looking for a easy to use all around saw.. I'd go with a Pegas.. I bought all my Hawks used other than the one new one I bought last December 2018.. To do over again.. and had I known what I do now.. and if the Pegas was on the market and known as it is now.. I'd go with the Pegas over the Hawk.. If you don't like blade changes on the Hawk.. then why keep it?  The blade changing on a Pegas is just thumb screws..

There are a lot of people that do not like the blade changing on the Hawk and Hegner saws.. I didn't like them either when I first got my first Hawk.. Now... to me.. The Hawk is easier and just no fussing with it once you get the saw adjusted to the correct blade and tension.. The blade in a Hawk can only go in one way.. often on the Pegas and types of saws a common question is where to place the blade in the clamp.. as there is no lower or upper blade stop..  On the Hawk you just put it in the lower clamp until it is in the bottom of the hole.. and once you have the upper arm set up to the correct height just bring it down until it bottoms out and tighten the thumb screw hit the tension lever and cut.. Once set up.. every blade you put into the saw will be at the same position every time.. 

IF I were you and only hobby cutting.. and already have a Hawk.. I'd probably run the Hawk until i found a good used Excalibur or similar saw.. even a DeWalt.. as the clamping system is the same type of set up or real close to it.. See if you like the blade changes on them before forking out big money for another saw that you may not like.. Maybe using the Hawk and putting a few more hours behind it will get you used to the blade changes.. OR.. see if there is someone in your area that'd let you try or demo a saw.. I ran a DeWalt for 10 years and then went to the first Hawk I picked up ( an old 220VS with the round clamps ) and I hated the blade changes.. hated the tension system.. as I kept breaking blades.. Most everything I hated about it as i took more time to "learn" to use and also set up the saw correctly.. Turns out the previous owner never set up the saw correctly.. I never knew there was adjustments for how far the upper arm comes down to meet the blade.. mine would come down so far I almost could have cut 1.5 inches off the blade, LOL.. It can be adjusted to stop at the right height.. So who knows if you're Hawk is even set up correct.. Maybe the part you hate is because it's not set up correctly??

Anyway spending money on a NEW saw and not really knowing if you'll like it in my mind isn't a very smart idea.. if you're on a limited income or on a tight budget..  As has been mentioned.. a lot of you're questions are more about personal preference.. Kinda like a chair.. not everyone likes a soft cushion chair and not everyone likes a hard chair.. Same with scroll sawing.. some folks sit while sawing and some like to stand.. my opinion of blade changing is easy on both saws. but not everyone likes the Hawk and Hegner style.. it's a preference thing.. You really need to "try" saws out to see what works for you.. all the saws you mentioned are great saws... but you need to figure out what you like / dislike about them yourself and make an informed decision.. This is why I say.. wait it out and buy used.. and also try to buy at a good enough price that you'll be able to get your money back or make a few $$ if you decide its not a saw for you.. 

Best of luck with your research.. any specific questions be sure to ask.. 

[Terry Jay]

I have the Excalibur 21, the DeWalt Type 1, and the RBI Hawk 220VS and 226 VS, and a Porter Cable that I started with.  The EX21 is the best overall saw for my useage, bowls and animal images and thick (1"+) word and image items.  The tension on the DeWalt is ideal, but limited upper arm travel makes thick pieces or stack cutting tough, need to bend the blade to get it in the hole.  Top feeding is better than bottom feeding, I can see what I am doing and hit the right hole.  With the Porter Cable and the Hawks, I had to bend a used blade and put it down the correct hole to reliably bottom feed in the correct hole. (The bend was so I did not drop it.)  

The DeWalt, EX and their cousins from Pegas and Seycp and King and the others all use the same significant wear parts.  Clamps are the most common issue as we tend to overtighten.  The new Pegas clamps get good reviews, but I have not used them.  

Ray at Seyco has really great customer service, and his stock of parts will fix a lot of issues on any of these saws.  A used saw in the EX/DeWalt family will work fine, and they tend  toward a long life.

Scrolling over the past 10+ years has been a Trending "Whats Hot Now" area for saws.  DeWalt was all the rage for years, with Hegner in there for those who could afford one and  Hawk with a lot of devoted fans.  The Excaliber took over for a while, then the manufacturing issues hit.  

Best wishes for a solution, used is an option.

[OCtoolguy]

On 2/14/2020 at 5:04 PM, BroBri said:

Paul, I just messaged Kevin.  Told him I have a Pegas in the cart at bear wood.  Shipping from Dennis in Tennessee was going to cost to much to CA.  As I have mentioned I have a RBI Hawk Ultra 226vs.  I currently have it for sale for $350.  Hoping to get $300.  I'd like to have easier blade changes.  I've been hitting the village forums pretty hard.  It has crossed my mind to keep the RBI.  I've been advised that getting a extra scroll saw for grandkids may not be the best idea.  Kids can lose interest.  My grandkids do do craft woodwork a lot and would rather do something with their hands then watch tv.  I could bypass the whole $900+ saw and have 2-3 RBI saws for another$600.  Is using a Pegas or similar A lot easier then RBI.  What if a motor goes out Am I stuck.  From what I have heard from Kevin's post RBI is a company that isn't very responsive to its customers.  All I see on the bushton website is new saws and ultra blade clamps.  Should I go forward with the Pegas or consider the having a few RBI saws and several bottom clamps

I have noticed a couple of nice saws up in Cambria that you should check out. Go on Facebook marketplace. I think one Hegner and 1 Excalibur if I recall.

[BroBri]

The only scroll saw on marketplace in northern california is a older RBI 220-3.  Serial 8875.  Kevin do you know how old it is.  It's only $75.  Im not interested it looks to be pre barrel clamp and it's missing the whole rear tensioning mechanism

( handle/wedge/bolt.)  Maybe his parts he has might be worth something to someone.  I've got someone coming to get my RBI next Thursday.  I've got a Pegas in the cart at bear wood.  I plan on submitting the order soon.  I got stung be a bee yesterday morning and my neck is red and swollen and warm.  Making sure I'm not going to croak with a reaction.  My mom and son are allergic to bee stings so im not sure what's going on with me.  My wife would rather have $900 then have a scroll saw show up at my door the day of my funeral2

[kmmcrafts]

Well I hope you haven't croaked.. Bee stings are no joke for some folks.. and especially when getting stung in the neck or face area.. My son is allergic to them.. got stung in his thumb by a black wasp once and his hand swelled up so big it looked like a rubber glove with 30psi of air in it, LOL.. he still has troubles with that hand in certain conditions such as the cold weather  etc... and this happen about 8-10 years ago...

 

I don't know for sure of the age.. but I don't think they made the 3 speed version for a lot of years..I believe all of the  220-3's were barrel style clamps.. and I also think most would be from the 80's and possibly a few from the early 90's.. 

I think you'd like the Pegas.. once you get one and get it all set-up and adjusted... they're awesome saws..

[BroBri]

Hi Kevin, this bee sting has been bad.  I went to the ER Sunday night.  My neck has a huge knot( still does)  the redness and swelling are starting to go down now.  I ordered the Pegas and stand from Bear wood yesterday.  I will order the blades from Dennis on this forum.  Shipping from Tennessee to Cali. would have been too much coming from Dennis.