Hegner Table Adjustment or Blade Installation Problem?

Drenaol · November 26, 2020

Good morning and Happy Thanksgiving! I just joined the 'village' as I did not know you existed until I was trying to troubleshoot a problem online. I am a very novice scroller ... and ended up buying a Hegner22V a few years ago with the intention of getting into the hobby in depth. That did not happen at the time, but I am now circling back to this form of 'playing with wood.'

My question for the Hegner users - I am having an adjustment problem and could sure use some advice. I am trying to do a compound scrolling on a two inch block and I am having difficulty with the blade alignment to the table front to back... the blade 'leans' forward. For thinner stock, this has never been noticed, but with a 2 inch block it is causing some difficulty. I am using the standard Hegner clamp on the low end and the 'quick-release' clamp on the top end (lots of starting locations inside the pattern). Is there a way to level the table front-to-rear? ... or am I just not setting the blade up properly? I have tried different tensions and different positions of the blade within both clamps - but I just can't seem to get rid of this alignment issue.

I love the saw... it is amazingly quiet and smooth, but to get full use of it, I need to figure out what I am doing wrong.

Thanks for any feedback!

Dan · November 26, 2020

I had a similar problem with my Delta P-20. I was trying to cut 3/4" puzzles and, even though the blade was perpendicular to the table, as I went around corners the cuts were beveled. My solution was to adjust the table angle. I removed the bolts that mounted the table to the frame, added washers to the rear bolts until the blade movement was mostly perpendicular, then tightened all bolts. It took some trial and error, but it worked. Now my puzzles have a good fit and my compound cuts are great.

I'm not familiar with the Hegnar but many scroll saws do have a more aggressive forward movement which makes turning corners a pain. But I have not noticed any reduction in cut speed and I get no more burn marks when I turn corners.

Not sure if this will help with the Hegnar, but you do have a good saw.

Scrappile · November 26, 2020

I'm sorry, but I do not understand what you are describing. I have cut several compound cuts with no problem. Maybe we are talking two different things. I refer to to what I have cut as 3D cutting... like in my picture... Is that what you are having a problem with? Oh, welcome to the forum... stick with us we will try to help.. There are several Hegner fans here,, I am one. so be patient..

Rockytime · November 27, 2020

Don't know if this your problem but when I make turn in thicker wood. 1" or 3/4", I pause at the turn to let the bottom portion of the blade catch up with the top portion and then make the turn. If I tend to push the wood too hard with out letting the bottom catch up it causes a bit of a problem for me. I try, as much as possible, to go no faster than my angel can...er ah blade can cut.

Drenaol · November 27, 2020

Thanks for the replies! Much appreciate your interest. Perhaps to better clarify, I have attached some pics.

The first shows how the blade is 'leaning' forward - 'top-to-bottom' - This seems to cause the issue that when I am cutting the pattern line on top of a 2 inch thick piece, the lower part of the cut is trailing the top. When I get to the end of the cut line on top, the lower cut is still a distance away from where it should be on the bottom. The block is square, but the blade is not.

The second picture is of the compound ornament I am trying to cut. It is NOT my work, but is taken from 'Scrollsaw Woodworking' magazine. While I am still trying to learn the scrollsaw, it seems to me that I will not be able to cut the detailed pattern correctly if the blade is not aligned properly 'front-to-back.'

Thoughts??

Dan · November 27, 2020

Yup, that's the same issue I had only mine was worst. Shimming the table fixed it.

Drenaol · November 27, 2020

Interesting info... I looked at the Hegner after your first comment. On first glance, I am not seeing an easy way to shim it. I would have thought that a more 'refined' method of leveling would be available for all scrollsaws. It seems odd that manufacturing tolerances are assumed to be enough for what appears to be a critical type of alignment.

I did send a note off to Advanced Machinery asking them for comment.

Thanks again for the reply.

Bob

Scrappile · November 27, 2020

I took a picture of mine... Mine is a 22" saw but that shouldn't matter. Not a good picture but mine is about a perpendicular to the table as it can be. I think Dan is correct, a slight adjustment to the table, although looking at my saw, not sure how that is accomplished. I have a piece of masonite covering my table. If I had to raise one end,,,, I would just put a strip of tape under the masonite,,, that is about all you need, maybe two layers... The other option is to call Advanced Machinery and talk to them. When I first got my Hegner I a problem with breaking blades. They worked me through it with a call and a few emails... Mine was just a learning curve for me. But they are very willing and able to help...

Drenaol · November 27, 2020

Thanks Scrappile. That is exactly what I think the alignment should be. I do not think there is a way to adjust the table however (mine is a 22 also). The pivots for the table swivel adjustment are mounted directly to the frame. The do not seem to have any 'adjustability' to them. I am thinking the alignment issue is more in the blade clamp assembly - but, again, see no way to adjust them either.

I do have an email out to Advance Machine asking for comment.

Scrappile · November 27, 2020

Don't do this until you get response from Advanced Machine, but I wonder it you removed the bottom clam and elongated the hole the bolt goes through so it could be moved forward a little. Just a thought, probably not a good one...

Drenaol · November 27, 2020

I am thinking along those same lines...... definitely going to talk to AM first though. I am still thinking I must be missing something obvious.

davidg · November 27, 2020

I have a Multicut 2S (1995-2010). There were two blade alignment issues I found which needed correcting;

1. When using the Quick Clamp, I discovered that I needed to push the visible/accessible far top of the blade into the clamp with my thumbnail as I was tightening the bade into the clamp. Failure to do this often meant that the blade twisted/moved during tightening in the clamp.

2. Even when the blade was correctly aligned in the Quick Clamp, the blade was still not aligned at 90 degrees front to back. To correct this, I removed the two machine screws attaching the upper arm blade support (blade support for QR arm), then elongated the two furthest holes in the support. This allowed the upper blade support to be adjusted from front to back prior to reattaching, in order to achieve the correct 90 degree blade alignment to the table. In my case, this small adjustment appeared to have no noticeable effect on the operation of the tensioning lever mechanism though obviously modifications like this would be at your own risk and invalidate any warranty.

For my machine, the part I modified was item 352 (Blade Support QR Arm);

https://www.hegner.co.uk/spare-part-finder?version=1&machine=HM2s

Drenaol · November 28, 2020

Thanks Davidg. You have confirmed what I was thinking I may need to do. I am still hoping for a less 'intrusive' means of correcting the problem from AM, but I am not hopeful.

For other scrollsaws - are adjustments for front to back alignment part of the design?

Scrappile · November 28, 2020

On my Seyco it would be easy. The table top is held in place with flathead screws that go into the frame of the saw ... You could easily loosen them and add shims...

Rockytime · November 29, 2020

I just measured my 18" Hegner. I did not photograph it but the top of the blade when all the way up leads the bottom by perhaps .020" or less. Couldn't measure it of course, but just compared it to a caliper. Don't think I'll mess with it.

OCtoolguy · November 29, 2020

Keep in mind that a saw using 2 parallel arms is always "swinging" the blade in an arc so the only time the blade is perfectly perpendicular to the table is the mid point of that arc. At least that is what I have read more than once on this subject.

Bill WIlson · November 30, 2020

Expounding on Ray's comment, check the blade with the square at several points during it's vertical travel, with the blade at the top, bottom and middle of the stroke. It may well confirm your belief that you have an alignment problem, in which case it would appear that you would need to explore options for modifying either the table or the clamps to correct it. But it may be helpful to know just how square the blade is during it's full cutting stroke.

TAIrving · December 1, 2020

On 11/28/2020 at 5:39 AM, Drenaol said:

Thanks Davidg. You have confirmed what I was thinking I may need to do. I am still hoping for a less 'intrusive' means of correcting the problem from AM, but I am not hopeful.

For other scrollsaws - are adjustments for front to back alignment part of the design?

There is an adjustment for this on Excalibur style scroll saws. The link below takes you to a description of how to do the adjustment. Go down to the discussion about "Blade Arc".

https://sheilalandrydesigns.com/free-pattern/tuning-your-excelsior-or-excalibur-scroll-saw/

Drenaol · December 1, 2020

I got an answer back from AM on the alignment issue:

"The blade motion is the consequence of the arm pivot span compared to the span of the blade assembly. Each arm moves through a small arc as it pivots, and how these arcs match up dictates blade position at any point in the stroke. In the 18 and 22 models, the bottom end of the blade moves slightly backwards on the upstroke, and is then draw forward into a vertical position at the bottom of the stroke, thereby achieving the vertical cuts for which HEGNER saws are known. This blade action also tends to reduce blade friction on the upstroke (less lifting - more comfortable sawing), as well as finishing the sawn edges so that they require a minimum of, if any, sanding…."

So, based upon this and some of the later comments (octoolguy, Bill, and Algae), I think the saw is okay... the operator is likely the problem. I will work on blade tension and feed pressure to see if I can reduce the cut problem I am having.

Thanks for the interest from all...

Ronny80 · December 11, 2020

On 11/27/2020 at 3:08 PM, Drenaol said:

Thanks for the replies! Much appreciate your interest. Perhaps to better clarify, I have attached some pics.

The first shows how the blade is 'leaning' forward - 'top-to-bottom' - This seems to cause the issue that when I am cutting the pattern line on top of a 2 inch thick piece, the lower part of the cut is trailing the top. When I get to the end of the cut line on top, the lower cut is still a distance away from where it should be on the bottom. The block is square, but the blade is not.

The second picture is of the compound ornament I am trying to cut. It is NOT my work, but is taken from 'Scrollsaw Woodworking' magazine. While I am still trying to learn the scrollsaw, it seems to me that I will not be able to cut the detailed pattern correctly if the blade is not aligned properly 'front-to-back.'

Thoughts??

The blade is inclined when the arm is up or down?

Drenaol · December 11, 2020

9 hours ago, Ronny80 said:

The blade is inclined when the arm is up or down?

The way I read the comment is that the blade should be maximum 'leaning forward' at the top-dead-center of the stroke... and should be perpendicular at the bottom-dead-center of the stroke.

Ronny80 · December 11, 2020

11 minutes ago, Drenaol said:

The way I read the comment is that the blade should be maximum 'leaning forward' at the top-dead-center of the stroke... and should be perpendicular at the bottom-dead-center of the stroke.

In your Hegner, is perpendicular at the bottom and leaning forward at the top?

Edited December 11, 2020 by Ronny80

Drenaol · December 11, 2020

Definitely leaning at the top. Since I got the comment from AM, I have not had a chance to check the bottom position. I hope to do this weekend.

Ronny80 · December 11, 2020

9 minutes ago, Drenaol said:

Definitely leaning at the top. Since I got the comment from AM, I have not had a chance to check the bottom position. I hope to do this weekend.

Can you let me know, when you'll check? I think that I have this problem, too. Thanks

Drenaol · December 11, 2020

26 minutes ago, Ronny80 said:

Can you let me know, when you'll check? I think that I have this problem, too. Thanks

Will do...

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