You Can't Please Everyone Every Time

[kmmcrafts]

This is copied from a reply in another thread and so not to hijack that thread I posted a separate topic.

I currently have a customer that bought a clock insert of my etsy store.. They bought the 50mm one and then left me a 1 star review because it's the wrong size.. They never once tried to contact me to ask any questions.. never inquired about a return.. nothing.. just left me the stupid 1 star review.. I reached out to them to see if I could help in some way and maybe they'd edit the review but it's all my fault because I should be advertising this clock by the size of hole that goes into rather than the overall size.. (which is the same way all other clock insert sellers sell is exactly how I sell them so not to confuse people ).. They mention the hole they have for the clock is 53mm and thought they would be able to stretch the clock out that extra 3 mm.. but turns out I gave them the wrong measurement by listing the face size.. That said.. my description shows the "mounting size" as well as I have one of the photos with a digital dial caliper showing exact size.. then they said there was no instructions on how to set or make the clock run.. I sent a instruction sheet which is also posted as one of the photos.. No matter what.. It's still my fault.. I refunded them their money and told them to keep the clock or throw it out.. blocked them from being able to purchase from me again, LOL

I get about 5 emails a week asking what size hole these clocks fit into.. IF folks would look over the pictures.. they all have the digital dial calipers showing that.. as well as written in the description.. You just can't make this stuff up... Getting ready to just take them off the site.. I don't have to sell them.. and markup barely pays for the packaging and ink etc for the label etc.. I only sell them to move my inventory so I don't have the batteries going bad just sitting in inventory.. but the hassle of the stupidity of questions I get asked and all the folks that buy one and then return it because it was the wrong size is not worth it. That or I'm going to price them as high as all the other folks do.. and accept no returns like they do to.. only exchanges.. 

@JTTHECLOCKMAN posted this portion as a reply to me from the other thread,

Kevin never did understand why you sell clock inserts?? on a site you now have to be sure the battery is good or the movement works well. Yes you can offer returns and things like that but you added a layer of hassle. When I sell at shows I always tell the customer the insert has a life time warrenty and it does. I will replace any insert on my dime. Not batteries. I sell or at least I have a variety of themed inserts that customers can choose from when they are there I would never offer them on a web site for above reasons. That is why selling face to face has value. I would think the only responsible thing needed to be printed in the ad is the overall size of the clock. If you now ad the hole size you added confusion because as you know not all same sized clock inserts have the same drill hole size. But that is your call and then need to deal with fallout. The person should have tried working things out with you first for sure. I never trust reviews unless there is so many negative ones. Then I move on. 

 

[kmmcrafts]

JT, I buy the clocks factory direct and have to order a minimum of 500pcs at a pop.. They come with batteries installed just like any other of the insert sellers out there that sell them.. I cannot use that many in a years time so I try to sell off a couple hundred a year so I don't have old clocks and old batteries to replace.. the replacement battery cost me more than the clocks do if i need to replace the battery so it just makes sense to sell off what I don't use.. I try to place a order yearly so no clocks are setting around with batteries going bad.

I haven't had any issues until Etsy changed the layout of the listings.. now the description shows the first sentence and then you have to click "read more about this item" to see the full description.. so people are not seeing the full description.. In order to help combat this issue I added photos which showed a digital calliper measuring the clocks.. I also posted a photo of the paper instructions showing how to set it up, and how to change the battery.. I'm sure you've seen those.. I also send those out with each clock.. All the needed info was always in the listing both in the written description as well as in the photos.. there shouldn't be much confusion and if there is there is a big box to click on to ask me questions..I don't mind explaining the use of these.. I do get quite ticked off when nobody communicates and then leaves a bad review.. I really don't mind returns either.. except that they've been a lot of them since Etsy started hiding half of the description.. People are not seeing the small text that says  "read more about this item" .. 

I took all my clocks off of Etsy today because of this dumb hassel... I have almost all 5 star reviews with a couple 4 star and only one 3 star that was kinda recent and the customer wanted to change it after I made sure they was happy but they couldn't figure out how to edit it. The star system on these marketplace sites affect how they choose to show customers your products.. while I have around 3200 transactions on Etsy one 1 star and one 3 star isn't going to do much damage to me but it still gets me because the person never gave me a chance to make things right since they never contacted me.. I did reach out to them and got things squared away but they haven't edited the review.. I don't care so much about that really so long as they are good with how I went about handling it. Anytime you have a issue with something you order you should give the seller a chance to make things right.. we all know things happen. 

The clocks are no longer offer to Etsy shoppers.. They are still on my website... where I have control of the page layout.. I do test each and every clock that I send out.. not any extensive test.. just take the plastic clip out and turn it on to be sure it works.. I've never had one not work.. sometimes when I have older inventory and I know it's older inventory I will send them with a extra new battery.. None of the other clock sellers warranty the battery and neither do I.. it's in my listings that the battery isn't warrantied.. However I still do test them and usually send the extra battery if it is a older clock. I don't know any other sellers that do that.. I've bought clocks from vendors with bad batteries many times in the past. I've never seen anyone posting photos with calipers either..    

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

4 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

JT, I buy the clocks factory direct and have to order a minimum of 500pcs at a pop.. They come with batteries installed just like any other of the insert sellers out there that sell them.. I cannot use that many in a years time so I try to sell off a couple hundred a year so I don't have old clocks and old batteries to replace.. the replacement battery cost me more than the clocks do if i need to replace the battery so it just makes sense to sell off what I don't use.. I try to place a order yearly so no clocks are setting around with batteries going bad.

I haven't had any issues until Etsy changed the layout of the listings.. now the description shows the first sentence and then you have to click "read more about this item" to see the full description.. so people are not seeing the full description.. In order to help combat this issue I added photos which showed a digital calliper measuring the clocks.. I also posted a photo of the paper instructions showing how to set it up, and how to change the battery.. I'm sure you've seen those.. I also send those out with each clock.. All the needed info was always in the listing both in the written description as well as in the photos.. there shouldn't be much confusion and if there is there is a big box to click on to ask me questions..I don't mind explaining the use of these.. I do get quite ticked off when nobody communicates and then leaves a bad review.. I really don't mind returns either.. except that they've been a lot of them since Etsy started hiding half of the description.. People are not seeing the small text that says  "read more about this item" .. 

I took all my clocks off of Etsy today because of this dumb hassel... I have almost all 5 star reviews with a couple 4 star and only one 3 star that was kinda recent and the customer wanted to change it after I made sure they was happy but they couldn't figure out how to edit it. The star system on these marketplace sites affect how they choose to show customers your products.. while I have around 3200 transactions on Etsy one 1 star and one 3 star isn't going to do much damage to me but it still gets me because the person never gave me a chance to make things right since they never contacted me.. I did reach out to them and got things squared away but they haven't edited the review.. I don't care so much about that really so long as they are good with how I went about handling it. Anytime you have a issue with something you order you should give the seller a chance to make things right.. we all know things happen. 

The clocks are no longer offer to Etsy shoppers.. They are still on my website... where I have control of the page layout.. I do test each and every clock that I send out.. not any extensive test.. just take the plastic clip out and turn it on to be sure it works.. I've never had one not work.. sometimes when I have older inventory and I know it's older inventory I will send them with a extra new battery.. None of the other clock sellers warranty the battery and neither do I.. it's in my listings that the battery isn't warrantied.. However I still do test them and usually send the extra battery if it is a older clock. I don't know any other sellers that do that.. I've bought clocks from vendors with bad batteries many times in the past. I've never seen anyone posting photos with calipers either..    

I hear what you are saying about buying in bulk. I have done that always also but then do not complain about a bad review because there will always be those people. One bad review scared you out of selling inserts.  Just look on Amazon and many thing I buy from them there is always negative reviews. people just want perfection all the time and that is impossible. I just think selling inserts is not the thing to do for what you do. If you buy in bulk save for the next year. I have inserts that are 15 years old. So what. you do not buy variety like I do and seem to use the same insert all the time so getting rid within 2 years should be no problem . When low then make an other order. If you need to buying those watch batteries is so cheap if buying in bulk. No way are those batteries more than an insert and I do not care where you buy them from. How long do you think those inserts are sitting around before you buy them?   But again they do go bad. I would think by now you would have a handle on your inventory needs. just my thoughts. I am not telling you what to sell or how. If I were selling my clocks I would never offer inserts on a web site. As I said I offer the choices when selling in person because again communication is important. I buy lots of things off Etsy and know about the click on for more information and have no problem with that. How many people even know what a caliper is? heck young kids have a hard time reading a rule or even counting change today. Make it as simple as can be. Heck I am dealing with a guy from Turkey for the past 5 months. he is making things specific for me and my pen making stuff. He deals in MM and I always have to convert to inches because that is what I grew up with. I have no problem doing that. 

Edited January 8, 2024 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[kmmcrafts]

The reason I took them off etsy isn't only because of the review, It's the people buying and returning.. If I don't accept a return then they can open a case up with etsy and more times than not etsy will side with the customer and not the seller.. same for Amazon.. That's a part of doing business with these venues.. I still sell these on my website because I have total control over that.. yes someone could dispute with the CC company still but that's really a rare thing. Most folks buying from the website are from these scroll saw forums and FB woodwork groups and for the most part know how these work and the measurements.

There is a lot of sales on etsy where etsy brought the customer in for the first time and they do not see that text to click to see more details.. People that know etsy and shop there have found that for the most part and that isn't an issue.. Lots and lots of sellers are mad and complaining about them hiding the description.. maybe they'll change it back maybe they won't. Again it's their site and they have to do what's best overall for everyone.. so they cannot please every seller.. IF they change it I may bring the clocks back online with them.. for now it's not working for me... several emails a week asking what size they are.. wasn't happening like that for the last 3 years they've been selling on there.. but been a pain to deal with.. many folks are guessing at the size because they know they can return it if it doesn't work out for their needs. My markup barely pays for the packaging.. and I lose money if i have to process a return.. I do have the option to raise the price and could.. IF I wanted to deal with answering all the questions and processing returns.. and that occasional poor review..

[kmmcrafts]

I put them back up on etsy, I changed the orientation of my description so that it shows what size hole they fit into first so if the customer doesn't see the "read more about this item" to expand to read the "full description" They should at least get the important info on sizing of the insert. I also raised the price ( Etsy only ) by $3  so now they are $12.97 so now I'm closer to what others are selling them for.. which is $15 and that's for the cheap plastic case ones.. I also added a blurb at the bottom to be sure to look at the sizing and know what you're buying as I no longer accept returns only exchanges for damaged clocks.. maybe this will fix the issue of people buying and returning because they don't know how to measure.. Most of the vendors I used to buy from stated no returns like this.. Probably for the same reason I was forced to do that.. 

We will see how this goes now.. 

[barb.j.enders]

I haven't read everything but I am putting my 2 cents in.  People don't read much beyond the first line or two.  When I was working, people would bring in their renewal letters, still unopened.  On any number of FB posts, I will put a full description of the project, blade size, pattern designer etc.  Someone always seems to ask a question that is already answered.  I feel that people have become lazy about researching/reading information.

[kmmcrafts]

Yes This has been an ongoing issue with online selling.. I don't think it was nearly this bad back in 2005 - 2010.. but it has gradually gotten worse over the years.. this is talked about amongst the sellers.. Years ago we used to put everything jumbo together in 1 paragraph.. over the years it has helped by breaking details up in short sentences or bullet points.. then they even stopped reading much of that info so then we sellers started putting more photos with rulers and as much info as we could within the photos.. as they used to look there.. 

The person that made me have to start this topic that gave me poor feedback apparently didn't do either and clearly just went off of what my listing title said.. Couldn't even figure out how to start the clock.. I sent a paper instruction as well as it's in the photos.. He bought a 50mm overall sized clock hoping it'd work in his 53mm hole, LOL

I have been communicating with him and got him squared away on how to use it.. other sources where he might find a 53mm clock since I don't have that size.. it's a oddball size that a company in Australia has or used too. I refunded his money.. probably shouldn't have but I did.. he claimed he'd edit his review because I made things right for him but he clearly hasn't done that yet.. I have a spot in order to respond with a public view on the reviews but once i do it he cannot change it.. so I'm waiting it out for a bit but I'm doubtful he will.. 

The bad thing about it all is the fact that on etsy and some of the other sites poor reviews can get your products kicked out of SEO so when people search for some of my items they ( etsy ) may hide my items from sellers because my seller score might be bad.. It's one thing if you have 50,000 sales under your belt and have some bad reviews but the smaller that total number is the one or two reviews can hurt your sales.. It's not a good system when you have people like this who don't even give you a chance to correct a problem.. most that leave a review can't figure out how to edit it either so that is an issue in itself.    

[Joe W.]

7 hours ago, barb.j.enders said:

I feel that people have become lazy about researching/reading information

Yes, I put a lot of the credit for that on the explosion of videos on most if not all social media over the years.
It's so much easier to be spoon-fed images - a passive experience with no thinking involved compared to reading.
Perhaps AI will be the bridge between human laziness and getting exactly what we want - with no effort involved.

[BadBob]

21 hours ago, barb.j.enders said:

I feel that people have become lazy about researching/reading information.

It doesn't help when the platforms also hide most of the text in your post.

[BadBob]

I have been on the internet since there was no web, and everything was text-based. You had to be computer literate even to make the connection. Over the years, as it became easier to connect, more people who were not computer literate got connected. Today, you don't need to know anything. If you buy your phone in a company store, they connect it for you while you watch. So, now you have large numbers of people on the internet poking their phones and tablets with their fingers that don't have a clue what they are doing. I live with one of these. This is one of the reasons unmoderated groups on Facebook are so horrible.

If you have an IQ of 60, you can still get a smartphone.

[kmmcrafts]

Surprisingly the person edited the review to 5 stars.. I've always tried to respond to any review less than 4 stars.. to see what I could do if something wasn't right.. and most times I make the customer want to edit the review. In this instance I felt I was a bit out of line with my response.. I normally wait a day or two to send a message so I can think of a professional way to ask what the problem was etc.. but I didn't do that quite as well as I'd have liked but it's sometimes difficult to do that when there was no communication whatsoever between us until the 1 star came in and most of it was about the size rather than an actual issue that was from my end. LOL

When etsy customers leave a review of a cell phone or tablet etsy doesn't show all 5 stars so many of the 4 stars are considered 5 because of the 5th star not being visible unless they scroll over a little on the screen to see that 5th star.. They may have fixed that now but I know it was that way for a long time.