I have returned and started my own business

[cowboyup3371]

I started as a member here a couple of years ago and then stopped visiting while I built out my new shop here at the house in 2022.  The build process finally ended back in October 2023 and I decided then to start my own business (Timeless Sawdust Memories LLC).

With that said, I sold a couple of music signs made from Steve Goode's patterns and a few more from a military book i purchased.  I am trying to teach myself how to use Inkscape through the YouTube videos out there but it has been a painfully slow process.  If I find patterns here I want to use, I know I should reach out to that person and ask if I can sell products made using that pattern (I WOULD NEVER SELL THE PATTERN ITSELF).  However, what should I do if that person doesn't respond to me because they aren't here anymore or some other reason?  Can I just proceed on and make the product or forget about it and find another that a person will talk to me?

And for the record, I haven't tried yet but am just trying to make sure I do right by people.

Edited March 13, 2024 by cowboyup3371

[rjweb]

Welcome home, your projects look good, RJ

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, cowboyup3371 said:

I started as a member here a couple of years ago and then stopped visiting while I built out my new shop here at the house in 2022.  The build process finally ended back in October 2023 and I decided then to start my own business (Timeless Sawdust Memories LLC).

With that said, I sold a couple of music signs made from Steve Goode's patterns and a few more from a military book i purchased.  I am trying to teach myself how to use Inkscape through the YouTube videos out there but it has been a painfully slow process.  If I find patterns here I want to use, I know I should reach out to that person and ask if I can sell products made using that pattern (I WOULD NEVER SELL THE PATTERN ITSELF).  However, what should I do if that person doesn't respond to me because they aren't here anymore or some other reason?  Can I just proceed on and make the product or forget about it and find another that a person will talk to me?

And for the record, I haven't tried yet but am just trying to make sure I do right by people.

Welcome back,

As for the patterns you find here on this site, they typically are free to use to make products to sell unless they are stated right on the pattern itself. Some patterns will say right on them that you are only allowed to make X amount of copies.. Or some will say for personal use only etc. If nothing on them other than the designer name and date then you should be good to go.

Where things get a little tricky is searching "other sites" for instance Pinterest has tons of patterns.. however many of them are purchased patterns that someone copied and uploaded to pinterest without consent to the designer.. 

I personally being a business myself, I like having a paper trail of the patterns I've "purchased".. either through books or receipts of the purchase and proof of that purchase in my records. Other than Steve Good and this site I try not to use any other designs. 

Being I'm in many CNC and laser groups as well, I find a lot of people taking scroll patterns and freely handing them out on those sites.. even ones from the designers that are strictly only selling patterns.. Many patterns from the pattern books for scroll work they've been just passing around free on those sites. They've even been taken down off FB because of this so they moved to a public google cloud thing and everyone gets a password to the cloud to freely steel patterns.. I dropped out of the group as I don't want no part of that. A paper trail of purchased designs proves you bought it.. doesn't prove that the seller was the designer but it does give me a paper trail to prove that I didn't purposely steel it. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I always thought the amount of copies was a total joke. Who is doing the counting? 

[cowboyup3371]

10 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Welcome back,

As for the patterns you find here on this site, they typically are free to use to make products to sell unless they are stated right on the pattern itself. Some patterns will say right on them that you are only allowed to make X amount of copies.. Or some will say for personal use only etc. If nothing on them other than the designer name and date then you should be good to go.

Where things get a little tricky is searching "other sites" for instance Pinterest has tons of patterns.. however many of them are purchased patterns that someone copied and uploaded to pinterest without consent to the designer.. 

I personally being a business myself, I like having a paper trail of the patterns I've "purchased".. either through books or receipts of the purchase and proof of that purchase in my records. Other than Steve Good and this site I try not to use any other designs. 

Being I'm in many CNC and laser groups as well, I find a lot of people taking scroll patterns and freely handing them out on those sites.. even ones from the designers that are strictly only selling patterns.. Many patterns from the pattern books for scroll work they've been just passing around free on those sites. They've even been taken down off FB because of this so they moved to a public google cloud thing and everyone gets a password to the cloud to freely steel patterns.. I dropped out of the group as I don't want no part of that. A paper trail of purchased designs proves you bought it.. doesn't prove that the seller was the designer but it does give me a paper trail to prove that I didn't purposely steel it. 

Thank you Kevin, I'll keep that in mind

[kmmcrafts]

10 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

I always thought the amount of copies was a total joke. Who is doing the counting? 

I agree, All of Sue Meys patterns are limited if you read the terms of use.. She only allows 10 copies on most of the patterns she has.. Many designers that are in it for the business of making money do this.. how they enforce it? No clue but I will say that it's hurting their sales.. I no longer buy from those designers if they wanna be like that go ahead.. but I'm not buying.. With all the laser and cnc designs available for download, most times I can find similar items from other sellers without a limit. Then you look at her patterns she has on her Etsy site and no limit mentioned in the terms..  It's probably just a generic terms of use she created years ago on her website.. I can understand the terms is probably to sort of deter the use of these designs from being done in large scale on lasers and cnc's years ago..

I see Sheila Landry is now selling their designs in both file formats for using on a laser or cnc.. probably a smart move for them as people aren't going to stop the use of these anyway so might as well charge a couple dollars more and take advantage of the honest ones willing to pay the laser file prices. 

 

 

[BadBob]

Some pattern books also have limits. I usually find them in the preface, introduction, or first chapter.

[BadBob]

I don't buy from anyone who restricts how many I can make.

 

[Wichman]

On 3/13/2024 at 6:58 PM, kmmcrafts said:

Welcome back,

As for the patterns you find here on this site, they typically are free to use to make products to sell unless they are stated right on the pattern itself. Some patterns will say right on them that you are only allowed to make X amount of copies.. Or some will say for personal use only etc. If nothing on them other than the designer name and date then you should be good to go.

Where things get a little tricky is searching "other sites" for instance Pinterest has tons of patterns.. however many of them are purchased patterns that someone copied and uploaded to pinterest without consent to the designer.. 

I personally being a business myself, I like having a paper trail of the patterns I've "purchased".. either through books or receipts of the purchase and proof of that purchase in my records. Other than Steve Good and this site I try not to use any other designs. 

Being I'm in many CNC and laser groups as well, I find a lot of people taking scroll patterns and freely handing them out on those sites.. even ones from the designers that are strictly only selling patterns.. Many patterns from the pattern books for scroll work they've been just passing around free on those sites. They've even been taken down off FB because of this so they moved to a public google cloud thing and everyone gets a password to the cloud to freely steel patterns.. I dropped out of the group as I don't want no part of that. A paper trail of purchased designs proves you bought it.. doesn't prove that the seller was the designer but it does give me a paper trail to prove that I didn't purposely steel it. 

From the pattern Library:

"Terms of Use:

Patterns are free for personal use. Copyrights and distribution remain with the pattern designer. Pattern usage for commercial purposes must be agreed on by the original designer and interested party. All agreements are made between the two parties and in no way affiliated with Scroll Saw Village."

You need to ask permission, the times I have asked, I have gotten permission without any problems. The only issue is designers who are no longer around to give permission.

[Wichman]

On 3/13/2024 at 8:27 PM, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

I always thought the amount of copies was a total joke. Who is doing the counting? 

You are. Do you believe in the rule of law or do you think this is the Wild West where you can do anything you want, until you are caught?

Also be aware that there are shady lawyers trying to shake down businesses for "copyright infringement". I you know you've done your "due diligence" then you can tell them to go pound sand. If you know you've been lax then you are venerable to these SOB's.

https://abovethelaw.com/2024/03/new-york-disbars-infamous-copyright-troll/

 

[Wichman]

9 hours ago, BadBob said:

Some pattern books also have limits. I usually find them in the preface, introduction, or first chapter.

 

9 hours ago, BadBob said:

I don't buy from anyone who restricts how many I can make.

 

My issue with the books is you can't see the fine print until it's in your hands. I've got a book of fancy mailbox designs that has a limit of 275 for each design. What a pain, you'd have to keep a set of books just to track how many you make over the years.

The Windfield Collection. I just noticed that their terms have changed to 10 of any pattern, whether it's a gift or to sell. I e-mailed them, telling them I wouldn't be buying any more patterns because of this ( If an item hit's and becomes a "hot" item then 10 just isn't going to cut it). I got a very nice response from them saying if an item turns "hot" then contact them and on a case by case basis they would try to expand the number allowed, but that their hands were tied on some patterns and designers. All the patterns I have from them are old and have no such restrictions on them, as long as you are making them, and you are using traditional tools to produce them. 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Wichman said:

From the pattern Library:

"Terms of Use:

Patterns are free for personal use. Copyrights and distribution remain with the pattern designer. Pattern usage for commercial purposes must be agreed on by the original designer and interested party. All agreements are made between the two parties and in no way affiliated with Scroll Saw Village."

You need to ask permission, the times I have asked, I have gotten permission without any problems. The only issue is designers who are no longer around to give permission.

This is just what Travis put up on here to cover his side should a issue arise. I know my opinion isn't the law but if a designer doesn't want you to produce and sell products from the patterns they offer for free, then they need to have it written on the pattern itself.. ( which some of them do and I stated that in the reply )  and also they shouldn't be posting them up on a site for free to use.. To me this is like buying a book with no Terms Of Use listed.. and then they come after you for misuse.. probably not going to hold up very well in a court of law.  Travis has his disclaimer but unless the designer puts it on the design it's really not a very strong case.. could you loose if they brought a case against you.. yes probably but.. 

This is really why I only purchase designs now and know the terms before I buy.. I have a few Sue Mey patterns that are HOT sellers.. I inquired about getting commercial use and she said it's very expensive and probably cheaper for me to just purchase the pattern each time I sell my 10 items.. so that is what I do.. the honor system and knowing I'm good should questions arise. As for buying new patterns I go elsewhere but will continue with those HOT sellers until they become only Warm sellers.  

 Something that really gets under my skin is the designers that post up patterns on the FB groups and never sign the design.. then it gets passed around by others and nobody has any idea who the real designer is... Would that design be free to use however you want then? LOL.. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

5 hours ago, Wichman said:

You are. Do you believe in the rule of law or do you think this is the Wild West where you can do anything you want, until you are caught?

Also be aware that there are shady lawyers trying to shake down businesses for "copyright infringement". I you know you've done your "due diligence" then you can tell them to go pound sand. If you know you've been lax then you are venerable to these SOB's.

https://abovethelaw.com/2024/03/new-york-disbars-infamous-copyright-troll/

 

Well if I am counting I can't count sue me. Copyright infringement is a different story. Nothing to do with copy limitations. I try hard to stay away from questionable patterns but it is so hard to prove and would cost lots of money to follow lawsuits. if you do not want your pattern or any item you made not to be copied never show it. Hide it for yourself. Nothing to do with rule of law. Ask yourself the same question in all aspects of life and truefully answer it.!!!!