First Run On The CNC Router Video

[jbrowning]

Thanks Kevin, I'll check the set out. I want to get a v nose bit to play around with making signs.

 

[kmmcrafts]

@jbrowning I'm not sure this guy does videos for your type of software or your type machine... But he has a lot of CNC info on his youtube page... and a great wealth of info on CNC's designing and really about anything to do with CNC or the lasers.. Maybe you'll get more time to watch his stuff than I do.. He is where I learn most of my info from.. He does many tutorial videos on the program V-carve and Aspire.. He may also do them on the program you use.. or possibly what he does can be useful to what your program is as well.. 

Good Luck getting through all his content and have fun making dust with it, LOL

https://www.youtube.com/user/dusty82elky/videos

 

 

[Phantom Scroller]

The only trouble with the scrollsaw is you can't do 3d carving with it believe me once I mastered the software and the CNC feeds and speeds I was away and I love to scroll and watch my CNC Mutli tasking and would love a Laser attachment when I can afford one.

I think it's a bit of jealousy on the part of people who don't own one of either. We had the same issue when electric tools came in they said you won't get me using them I use hand tools that's proper woodwork . It's all woodwork. Off my soap box now. Roly

Edited November 15, 2019 by Phantom Scroller

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, Phantom Scroller said:

The only trouble with the scrollsaw is you can't do 3d carving with it believe me once I mastered the software and the CNC feeds and speeds I was away and I love to scroll and watch my CNC Mutli tasking and would love a Laser attachment when I can afford one.

I think it's a bit of jealousy on the part of people who don't own one of either. We had the same issue when electric tools came in they said you won't get me using them I use hand tools that's proper woodwork . It's all woodwork. Off my soap box now. Roly

Thank you for saying that.. though I'm not certain it's a jealousy thing.. could be with some folks I suppose.. I think a lot of them just don't understand the machines.. and are worried they'll run the scroll saw folks out of business by mass producing with these.. and you just can't mass produce with these like they see it in their mind.. NOW.. maybe if you had 20 machines set up or a very large machine.. even so. to do the fine detail work that a scroll saw can do is tough to do on a CNC router..  Yes you can do very fine details.. but the 1/32 ball nose router bits are quite fragile.. and not cheap like a scroll saw blade would be if you broke one.. LOL That small of a bit.. and you need slooooow shallow cuts with a CNC.. just isn't practical in my mind.. Unless you have no scroll sawing experience but do have CNC experience.. still going to take a very long time to cut out stuff with scroll saw type detail. 3D carving is a whole another story.. and yes.. can't be easily done on a scroll saw.. As I've said in my past postings.. There is a spot where all these tools fit in.. and they make an awesome workshop if you have them and also important to know how to use them efficiently LOL  

I often wonder what the folks thought of the electric scroll saw or even the treadle scroll saw back in the day when it was just hand coping / fret saws..  

[Phantom Scroller]

On 11/15/2019 at 9:41 PM, kmmcrafts said:

Thank you for saying that.. though I'm not certain it's a jealousy thing.. could be with some folks I suppose.. I think a lot of them just don't understand the machines.. and are worried they'll run the scroll saw folks out of business by mass producing with these.. and you just can't mass produce with these like they see it in their mind.. NOW.. maybe if you had 20 machines set up or a very large machine.. even so. to do the fine detail work that a scroll saw can do is tough to do on a CNC router..  Yes you can do very fine details.. but the 1/32 ball nose router bits are quite fragile.. and not cheap like a scroll saw blade would be if you broke one.. LOL That small of a bit.. and you need slooooow shallow cuts with a CNC.. just isn't practical in my mind.. Unless you have no scroll sawing experience but do have CNC experience.. still going to take a very long time to cut out stuff with scroll saw type detail. 3D carving is a whole another story.. and yes.. can't be easily done on a scroll saw.. As I've said in my past postings.. There is a spot where all these tools fit in.. and they make an awesome workshop if you have them and also important to know how to use them efficiently LOL  

I often wonder what the folks thought of the electric scroll saw or even the treadle scroll saw back in the day when it was just hand coping / fret saws..  

Don't know if you have used the tapered bullnose they are much stronger than straight ones. I love them use them alot. Roly

[Sycamore67]

The new tools are interesting including the CNC, 3D printer and laser.

The lasers seem to be easier.  I have a cheap one and it just needs a jpeg image.

The 3d printer and cnc require more programming with a much bigger learning curve and of course money.  I have looked at both and am considering buying one.  But first I would need to invest the time to learn a program like Fusion360.  For me it is not the money but the time needed to learn the software.

So, I am figuring if I should get a better laser, a 3d printer, or CNC.  What would be the most fun, useful or interesting?

[Be_O_Be]

On 11/15/2019 at 4:41 PM, kmmcrafts said:

As I've said in my past postings.. There is a spot where all these tools fit in..

 I couldn't agree with you more.

 When personal computers arrived on the scene & I found out that my children were learning how to operate them in school I refused to let the technology pass me by, they already had me beat on Mario brothers.

 If it wasn't for the thirst of knowledge and curiosity we would have lost the opportunity to share ideas and our work with people around the world, on this and other sites like this. Most peoples knowledge that these types of machines even existed would be limited. I'll agree that these machines aren't for everyone and they have their place for the people that do but the knowledge they share while learning how to operate them is still knowledge shared.

 It wasn't that long ago we would have to go to the library and get a book to read about these types of innovations and now the library is just a click away. I for one embrace it.   

 

[meflick]

On 11/20/2019 at 9:26 AM, Sycamore67 said:

The new tools are interesting including the CNC, 3D printer and laser.

The lasers seem to be easier.  I have a cheap one and it just needs a jpeg image.

The 3d printer and cnc require more programming with a much bigger learning curve and of course money.  I have looked at both and am considering buying one.  But first I would need to invest the time to learn a program like Fusion360.  For me it is not the money but the time needed to learn the software.

So, I am figuring if I should get a better laser, a 3d printer, or CNC.  What would be the most fun, useful or interesting?

Larry,  that is a hard question - especially with most people not having had an opportunity to use all 3 of these pieces of equipment.  They are all different and do a little different type of work so I guess the real question is what do YOU enjoy doing, what would YOU want to make?  Are you looking to do it simply as a hobby or trying to make money with it?  Once you think about it and decide what YOU most want to do  - you will more easily figure out  what you would like to do.

Now, that said - I have some experience with the CNC and the 3D printer so far and thanks in part I think to your recent post about the cheap laser, I have one of those expected to be delivered today.  Some women like clothes, shoes, handbags and jewels - I much prefer technology and tools.  I am however more of a "jack of all trades and master of none" and so far, most of what I have done with the CNC and the 3D printer is to do "hobby" work - not attempt to make any money - that takes the fun out of it.    A few years ago, it was my husband's idea to get a 3D printer, so I got him one for Christmas.  It's a smaller one, got it on sale from a supplier I had purchased a cutting machine from and one that is no longer for sale.  I made a few things with it, hubby never did - (his time is still spent at a real job most of the time.) He did help me troubleshoot some hardware issues with it. I am the one between us who enjoys messing around and learning software and tools like this.  I haven't really used it much in a while - it was fun and interesting but most of what I was crafting with it were patterns and things I found on sites like https://www.thingiverse.com - now most of what I did were more "fun" then useful - but there are "useful" things out there to be made.  Of the tools I have had and used so far, I would put this one down at the bottom of my list if I were thinking about buying another one.  That may be in part due to some of the issues I have had with it but I don't consider it as fun, useful or as interesting as the CNC machine.  Almost two years ago now, we agreed to buy the CNC machine as our "joint gift" to each other for Christmas.  Again, work gets in his way, and learning the software needed would not be his favorite pastime, so again, I have been the person who has used the CNC machine.  I do consider it "fun" "useful" and "interesting."  I much prefer the software for it and how it works over the 3d printer.  I use the Vectric Desktop program that came with the CNC machine that we bought.  I have created several gifts and items with it from free files that you get from Vectric.  I have also created some from files I got elsewhere and have crafted some simple ones myself.  I haven't nearly scratched the surface of it and have been a way from it for a bit (life gets in the way) so will probably have to "relearn" some of the basics.  It is something you need to use regularly to "keep" the knowledge needed at the forefront. If I had the $, I would definitely buy the CNC machine again.  However, between the two, the CNC machine we got was much more expensive then the 3D printer. The Vectric Software alone, even the basic version, costs more than the 3D printer did.  But, I will also say the Vectric software is much, much better then the software for the 3D printer. I am awaiting delivery of the cheap laser I bought after seeing your post on the Puzzles and the "coin" inserts.  I want to use it primarily to do something similar to what you used it for, to add a "signature" to the back of pieces and do a few other basic ideas.  I figured for $100, it would be worth getting and experimenting with and see if I could get it to work better then the woodturner tool I have for adding a signature to a piece.  If it works, great, if not then I am not out that much $ in the bigger scheme. It is coming via UPS and we usually don't get our UPS deliveries until the early evening so will not be able to try it today probably.  Hopefully in a couple of days I will know if it works well enough to do what I want with it and have more insight into the "cheap" laser side but you clearly have more knowledge and insight on that already then I do.

If you are enjoying using your laser, enjoy working with the software you need and how to get the designs in to burn, then you might consider upgrading to a bigger, better laser.  If you want to learn something new, something different, new software, etc. then you might consider a cnc or 3d printer - deciding which one might be somewhat reliant on the amount you want to spend. 

One thing to think about - with Thanksgiving next week, "Black Friday" and Christmas sales are out or coming out so you might be able to find a pretty good deal on whatever you decide you want to do next.  That was when I got both the 3d printer and the CNC - got good holiday sales on them at the time.  Good luck and look forward to seeing what you decide.

[kmmcrafts]

On 11/20/2019 at 9:26 AM, Sycamore67 said:

The new tools are interesting including the CNC, 3D printer and laser.

The lasers seem to be easier.  I have a cheap one and it just needs a jpeg image.

The 3d printer and cnc require more programming with a much bigger learning curve and of course money.  I have looked at both and am considering buying one.  But first I would need to invest the time to learn a program like Fusion360.  For me it is not the money but the time needed to learn the software.

So, I am figuring if I should get a better laser, a 3d printer, or CNC.  What would be the most fun, useful or interesting?

That's a tough one to answer.. they all are nice machines to play around with.. and so many different mediums to be able to cut.route, engrave or burn.. LOL For me.. I believe the CNC router is probably the most versatile machine.. since you can buy a laser attachment or a 3D printer attachment.. also a rotary attachment so you can use it like a lathe.   My CNC says it can be used on soft metals.. aluminum etc.. Takes a pretty expensive laser to do much with metal.. You can engrave plastics, etch plastics and metals with a drag bit.. heck.. mount a pen in the CNC and draw images on paper, LOL.. I have no clue how efficient the CNC is with some of these things.. but it's options.. The one downfall to the lasers that you mount in the CNC is they lack power to do any cutting.. and I've heard they are quite slow going compared to a K-40 like I have...    

That all said, i have no idea of the quality or pricing of the laser and 3d printer or any other attachments for the CNC.. I do know the laser is a bit pricey for no more power than it has.. but on the other hand.. it all works off the same software too.. so no real time invested in re-learning a whole new program.. I should say that with caution.. as I'm not positive the 3D printer or the rotary attachments work on the same program.. I'm assuming it does.. 

The Vetric software that came with my machine.. it's pretty simple to use from what I've learned so far... and for me.. I almost wonder if it's be easier to make scroll saw patterns with it than inkscape etc.. 

[Phantom Scroller]

I built my shapeoko CNC from a kit and now know every part of it should it go wrong and they do a laser attachment for it and that will be my next toy so I would say get something you can add to at a later date. Roly 

[kmmcrafts]

I’m not a very big fan of these and would not make them normally but a very special person wanted this to give as a Christmas gift. 

I still gotta finish cutting on the one piece and cut out the hole for the magnifying glass etc. 

I made this from a free design that was in a pdf file and was able to put it into my software and basically converted the file to work with my CNC.  Some of the file had some open and duplicate vectors on the small piece. I couldn’t figure out how to close the vectors up so a portion of it I just completely deleted from the graphics. Was a lot easier than I expected.  I deleted the actual cutout shape as they specifically wanted the natural edge wood look and I still don’t have a spoil board set up on the work table. 

Carved from Ash. I sealed up the wood with lacquer before carving and then sanded / cleaned up and sprayed black and sanded the black overspray off the wood but not all of it as it made it look old and rustic with a bit of black embedded into the wood grain. Then top coat with clear. 

This piece run on my CNC for about 70 minutes. I haven’t messed with speed settings yet but quite certain it could run through this faster. 

These more detailed ones like this bring $300 plus on Etsy. Some are as much as $1500 lol . Not my cup of tea thing to make but I sure had fun playing with and learning to import a graphic and making it work. Everything I’ve done on it to this point was just text that I made in the vcarve software program. 

I cant wait to get more time and learn more about this thing. Might be boring once I learn the thing. But right now it’s fun to learn of all the possibilities this machine can do. 

[Jim Finn]

Glad folks are having fun with this new techknowledgy, but I enjoy working with my hands so I doubt I will ever try it.  (Unless I decide to try to make serious  money instead of just  having a self funding hobby)

[don watson]

Hi Kev,

I finished this last night and gave it a coat of sanding sealer this morning.

I used Vectric VCarve Desktop for toolpaths (and GCode) and UCCNC on my CNC machine to cut it.

Quite happy with my first project but I think I should have used real wood instead of MDF.

Don W

 

[JimErn]

Very nice Don

When you are setting up the software for the graphic, does the software show a 3-d image of what will be carved?  If not how do you know how to set the depth settings?

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, JimErn said:

Very nice Don

When you are setting up the software for the graphic, does the software show a 3-d image of what will be carved?  If not how do you know how to set the depth settings?

I can't speak of other programs but in V-carve yes.. you design it or import a file.. select your wood size, and what tool bit you're using.. You can select pocket cuts, V carve cuts, inlays cuts, profile cuts  etc etc.. and then you calculate the path.. at that point it'll give a option of a 3D view that you can pan around all different angles etc.. If you choose too deep in the wood it'll give a warning that the bit will cut through and may damage your CNC bed..    

[kmmcrafts]

That turned out really nice Don... I haven't done any carving since the portrait thing I did on Christmas day.. I need to keep at it or I'll forget.. 

I love the V-carve software... what little I've used it anyway.. Seems quite simple.. I think it's easier than designing on inkscape.. If fact.. I've been using it a bit to create scroll saw patterns, LOL.. What little I do with scroll patterns anyway.. something else I need to keep up on.. I get to where I am learning to do this stuff then I step away for a few weeks and forget all I learned, LOL

Have fun with it... post some more projects as you go..   

[don watson]

Thanks Kev, after a week away I have totally forgotten what little I did learn. At 80 years old it don't take much.

@JimErn, a good explanation from Kev there, as you enlarge/reduce the picture you have an option to keep the same depth ratio or make shallower or deeper. The 3d view can be rotated in every direction to show contours.

Don W

 

[Chiloquinruss]

I am new to this subject here but have been on this forum for awhile.  I'm known as the train guy.  I make toys and models.  I have a Hawk that I totally love and I also have a full digital wood shop.  I love getting involved in these 'us versus them' discussions when it comes to hand made and cnc.  Last time I looked my Hawk has a motor, and a foot pedal.    In my shop I have a laser, a 3d printer, a vinyl cutter, a table saw, a band saw, a wood lathe, and 48x96 cnc machine.  I buy lumber and put it into my truck and take it my shop and I make stuff.  If I am using my Hawk, I draw out a pattern and 'glue' it to a piece of wood, turn on my machine and cut out my piece.  Handmade, well kinda!    My cnc machine gets a lot of use mainly because the projects I work on simply wouldn't fit on any other of my machines.  In answer to previous comments todays cnc software is head and shoulders above any cad you may have seen just a few years ago.  If allowed I'd like to post first a couple of pix of my shop then later on a few pix of some of my projects.  The last pix is where I really get the handmade feel!    Great discussion going, I love it, please keep it going.   Russ

 

[kmmcrafts]

8 hours ago, Chiloquinruss said:

I am new to this subject here but have been on this forum for awhile.  I'm known as the train guy.  I make toys and models.  I have a Hawk that I totally love and I also have a full digital wood shop.  I love getting involved in these 'us versus them' discussions when it comes to hand made and cnc.  Last time I looked my Hawk has a motor, and a foot pedal.    In my shop I have a laser, a 3d printer, a vinyl cutter, a table saw, a band saw, a wood lathe, and 48x96 cnc machine.  I buy lumber and put it into my truck and take it my shop and I make stuff.  If I am using my Hawk, I draw out a pattern and 'glue' it to a piece of wood, turn on my machine and cut out my piece.  Handmade, well kinda!    My cnc machine gets a lot of use mainly because the projects I work on simply wouldn't fit on any other of my machines.  In answer to previous comments todays cnc software is head and shoulders above any cad you may have seen just a few years ago.  If allowed I'd like to post first a couple of pix of my shop then later on a few pix of some of my projects.  The last pix is where I really get the handmade feel!    Great discussion going, I love it, please keep it going.   Russ

 

So if you use a treadle scroll saw you have to say it's foot make.. 

 

[Chiloquinruss]

"you have to say it's foot make"  Exactly!    We make what we make with tools, and SKILLS!  Are those skills based on using a hand chisel, or are those skills, simply a set of skills that produces the desired results.  For the hobbyist I love doing things with my hands but I am a retired 'geek' and so I also love my powered toys, which just happen to be mostly digital!    Russ