Framing

[avenuewood]

Good morning people,

I have been trying to frame my pieces. 
I looked on t’internet for an idiots guide to making picture frames. There are many out there, many different, mostly very involved!

Double the width of your frame, add 1/4”, take away the number you first thought of etc. etc.

They do not work for me. Is there a SIMPLE way to measure, cut and assemble a frame for our work?

I do not use matting, I just use a backer board and need a frame to fit that into.

 Thanks for your help.

[Roberta Moreton]

The easiest way I have found:

Do not attach your backer to the piece you want to frame yet.  Cut the backer oversized just in case.

When you measure the side, that measurement will be for the short part of the 45 angle. The long part is the outside of the frame.

For an 8x10 you need two 8” pieces and two 10” pieces. Stack cut them. They must be exactly the same. 

After assembly measure your opening and trim your backer to fit. 
This is the only way I can get them to work for me. 

[new2woodwrk]

See if this tutorial helps

I tried to make it fairly simple because I had the same issues as you - it's in 5 parts

 

Hope that helps

[munzieb]

This is my method. Not a whole lot of measuring and it works for me.

Boy, this can get complicated and there a few people on the site that do framing as a business and probably have tools to make it easier and will probably chime in with some help. For me, I figured early on in my scrolling career, that I would be making a fair amount of plaques that needed frames. Since I have an EX-16, my projects are limited by the throat of my saw. I decided to build a miter sled for my table saw with extensions and stops to make equal lengths. The vast majority of my frames are directly attached to the plaque and backer board with CA glue and pin nails from the back. The frame molding from Lowes, I use is 5/8” wide and 5/16 thick. My plaques are 1/8” and backer is ¼” and my pin nails are ½”. I usually measure either ½ or one inch away from the furthest point on the pattern and add the 5/8” width of the molding to that dimension and draw that out on the pattern before cutting the wood and also backer board. Now the hard part, I use the “sneak technique” for my cuts to get the right fit. I use my table saw with the sled or a good miter with a fence and a band saw with a fence will work also. A miter (chop) saw can work but tougher on small moldings. I’ll measure the length and width pieces of the plaque and add a good inch or 2 to the length and cut them on a 45 miter on both sides to start. I lay the 2 miter cuts (side and top) to abut and measure to the outer edge of the opposite side. (that gets you close to the sneak fit length) Hold down the fitted miters (flush to edges) with 2 sided tape or blue tape and place the other mitered side piece on the plaque flush to the edge and mark the long piece at the point of where the tip of the 45 miter cut touches the long piece (be a little proud to sneak up) and cut on saw. Once you have a good fit, cut the opposite side to the same length. Use the same technique for the side pieces. Once everything fits even, with no gapes and is square, attach to plaque (glue and or pin nail). For picture frame moldings with the ¼” rabbit to drop the picture in, I use the same technique laying the molding groove over the picture to make the same measurement. I know this isn’t that simple and frame stores charge and arm and a leg for the material and the tools they use but once I got the technique down, I can get them done pretty fast. I’ve included the Lowes P/N (8’) for the molding I use and some examples of the frames I have done.

I still haven't got the picture sequencing right yet but the 3rd from last is actually the 1st and move backwards from there until you get to the whole frame. The Lowes P/N and molding profile and some examples are at the end. 

[avenuewood]

Thanks all for the replies. Really is a complicated project.

I don’t have a table saw so am trying to do it with a compound mitre saw. I have “tinkered” with the angle gauge and got that as near accurate as makes no difference. Will try to make a long enough fence so that I can use a stop block to get the pieces exactly the same length.

 

[new2woodwrk]

2 hours ago, avenuewood said:

Thanks all for the replies. Really is a complicated project.

I don’t have a table saw so am trying to do it with a compound mitre saw. I have “tinkered” with the angle gauge and got that as near accurate as makes no difference. Will try to make a long enough fence so that I can use a stop block to get the pieces exactly the same length.

 

It's been my experience with a chop saw (miter) you're not going to get the correct angle no matter what you do.

If that is the only saw you have, my suggestion is to make sure the 2 stiles are exactly the same length and angle (cut them at the same time, not individually) and the 2 rails are also done the same way.

Then use the sawdust from the cuts to glue "fill" any gaps in the  corners.

Another option is to NOT try to miter cut the stiles and rails.

Do you have any other type of saw? Circular? Jigsaw? Hand saw? Coping? Flush Cut (Japanese)?

You can half lap cut (Japanese/Flush Cut or circular saw) or pocket hole join them.

Pocket hole join would be the easiest IMO

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by new2woodwrk

[munzieb]

All great suggestions. A back saw with a miter box is old school but will definitely work too.

[avenuewood]

New2woodwrk I spent a whole morning tinkering and adjusting my mitre saw and I have got it so that it is very close to being “good”.

 I don’t have a problem with the angles it is just getting the lengths right. I always assumed there was a formula for working out how long each side needs to be cut to get a good fit. As I said in my original question I have seen many different formulas but when I try them they don’t somehow work for me.

[Denny Knappen]

As a frame shop, we have two chop saws each set at 45 degrees.  Cut the angle on the first and set the length guide at the proper length.  Then cut the second angle.  Do this for the second piece.  Repeat for the other sides.  Only when we change blades do we check the 45 degrees.

[munzieb]

No matter how you look at it, a picture frame is a parallelogram that happens to be a rectangle. A rectangle has opposing sides that are of equal length.

https://www.mathwarehouse.com/geometry/quadrilaterals/parallelograms/rectangle.php

[Wichman]

7 hours ago, Denny Knappen said:

As a frame shop, we have two chop saws each set at 45 degrees.  Cut the angle on the first and set the length guide at the proper length.  Then cut the second angle.  Do this for the second piece.  Repeat for the other sides.  Only when we change blades do we check the 45 degrees.

So what is your length guide and how do you set it to the proper length?

[Wichman]

Every time this subject comes up I get hives; because I feel I  lack the ability to show how we do it in the shop I work for or adiqueitly explain it, but I'll try:

I work for a commercial framing shop. Right now we are about half way though an order for 8,200 7 x 10 art pieces framed with a display rack. That's right over eight thousand frames...ain't got time to screw around. The "secret" is the measuring system and stop. The measuring system is ( on our saw ) a series of diagonal lines (45 degrees from the fence, parallel to the blade (at 45 degrees)). The lines are graduated in inches to 1/8's. The stop is a reverse 45 so that it captures the corner of the frame. To use, the first miter is cut, then the molding is placed so the the portion of the frame that is being measured is lined up with the desired measurement (normally this is the edge of the rabbit) and the second (opposite) miter is cut.

The second half of the measuring system is a yardstick with a 45 degree wing on the left end. To measure, place the cut piece tight against the yardstick, adjust stop as necessary. When satisfied with the  measurement cut the second leg. Adjust stop for the other measurement, repeat. We normally add 3/32 to the nominal size to allow for movement.

Here is a picture of the out-feed table showing the diagonal lines and the reverse 45 stop:

I'll try to get some pictures from the shop tomorrow.

[Wichman]

This is the ruler we use to check the size of the frame molding after it is cut.

 

This is a close up of the measuring system on a commercial saw, the same system is used on an ancient trimmer (uses a straight blade to cut, foot powered)  :

There's about 8000 ft of molding in a full crate.

The start of a rack of frames. 100 frames there.

framing pieces lined up on trays to have the ends stained.