Question about online sales ( maybe a couple )

[Puzzleguy]

My wifes business has tanked -we have to go online -i know it takes time to make money -

but the quicker she can get on ,the better - we do have a web site but we dont sell on it ( yet )

what site do you prefer and maybe the easiest to work with - thinking maybe etsy or amazon handmade ?

any tax programs that collect tax and pay it to the states ?

any good ifo or sites to help get one started ?

 

Thank you one and all - things are getting tight and so far all shows have been cancelled !

Thanks !   Tony

[rjweb]

The one to talk to is Kevin, he has sites on esty and amazon both, and does very well, RJ 

[kmmcrafts]

I sell or have sold on several online venues ( ie etsy, amazon handmade, artfire, Zibbet, Indiemade, eBay, and of coarse my own website.. etc etc ) ... The quickest, easiest to get going and start selling for handmade goods is probably going to be etsy.. amazon would maybe be my second go to site but they are strict and really not all that user friendly.. they are geared more towards power sellers.. and are very strict is getting orders out in time.. if the orders are late they start docking or pay out funds.. too many late orders is a termination of selling privileges.. etc..

Yes, Etsy , amazon, and ( I think ) eBay will collect sales tax for all the states that are required to report taxes and handle that for you.. other than your business state.. they're set up to charge those taxes for you to collect and remit to your state.. so long as you set it up that way, LOL  

Pricing is important to consider for online selling as you have different expenses than selling at crafts shows.. Maybe it all equals out as I never really did shows so I'm not real up on what kind of expenses they incur.. But you probably can expect about 20 - 25% of total sales to go to site fees and processing fees etc.. Etsy charges $0.20 listing fee but also charges a 5% FVF ( final value fee) on the total including your shipping price and taxes collected etc.. plus a ( I think) 3% payment processing fee.. Amazon charges a 15% fee that covers the payment fee etc.. on the total transaction ( ie shipping and taxes etc ) ..

Feel free to ask any other questions either here or send me a PM if you like..

 

   

[BadBob]

This is a bit of a rant. I could write a book. Feel free to ask questions.

I have an Etsy shop and don't sell anywhere else. The shop setup is easy to do, but getting sales is work.

You first need to learn how to do product photography. You are not going to sell many items if you have bad photos.

You will need to learn something about SEO (Search Engine Optimization) and use it in your product descriptions.

You will spend a lot more time. promoting your shop than anything else. Social media is your friend. I send 80% of my traffic to my site.

You need to understand analytics. I'm not particularly good at this. Thre are all sorts of things that don't seem to make sense. For example, the two items in my store that get the most views have never sold. Why do I keep them? They consistently bring visitors to my shop. A know this because of analytics.

Understand who your buyers are. Most of my traffic comes from women under 40 that live in or near big cities. Women comprise about 80% of my views and more than 90% of my sales. How do I know this? Analytics. My theory is that men come to my shop and say, "I can make that." and go away.

Most (nearly) all of the groups, forums, etc you find online are full of useless advice from people that don't know what they are talking about. As far as I am concerned, if they can't give numbers they don't know what is going on. I'm in the top 20% (Barely) and my sales are started paying for themselves in the last year.  Do listen to people like @kmmcrafts who make money selling online.

 

 

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, BadBob said:

This is a bit of a rant. I could write a book. Feel free to ask questions.

I have an Etsy shop and don't sell anywhere else. The shop setup is easy to do, but getting sales is work.

You first need to learn how to do product photography. You are not going to sell many items if you have bad photos.

You will need to learn something about SEO (Search Engine Optimization) and use it in your product descriptions.

You will spend a lot more time. promoting your shop than anything else. Social media is your friend. I send 80% of my traffic to my site.

You need to understand analytics. I'm not particularly good at this. Thre are all sorts of things that don't seem to make sense. For example, the two items in my store that get the most views have never sold. Why do I keep them? They consistently bring visitors to my shop. A know this because of analytics.

Understand who your buyers are. Most of my traffic comes from women under 40 that live in or near big cities. Women comprise about 80% of my views and more than 90% of my sales. How do I know this? Analytics. My theory is that men come to my shop and say, "I can make that." and go away.

Most (nearly) all of the groups, forums, etc you find online are full of useless advice from people that don't know what they are talking about. As far as I am concerned, if they can't give numbers they don't know what is going on. I'm in the top 20% (Barely) and my sales are started paying for themselves in the last year.  Do listen to people like @kmmcrafts who make money selling online.

 

 

Good information, I tend to overlook some of the things I do on a regular basis thinking it's just common sense because I've been doing it so long I forget a lot of the things I didn't know when i first started out.. It's always good to see others put out info as well.. I don't consider myself a pro at it or anything.. and many things change from one year to the next.. what I'm doing now may not be the 100% correct way of doing it right now..  Time is an asset though.. and building a following is too.. I can't imagine trying to get into the business with so many others out there doing the same things.. I got in and started a following a long time ago and I feel it was much easier to do back in the earlier days.. Still can be done.. but it's a lot of work.. and you cannot expect to just list your ads up and people flock in to buy it all up.. Takes years to get a following.. 

At one time, I spent more time promoting my products than I did making them.. there has to be a balance where you have the time to promote and also make the products.. I got to a point where i realized to make more money i needed to spend some money and start advertising.. I don't think I'd be where I am without doing some paid advertising..

I know there are some that solely make a living off only etsy.. I would never do that.. If for some reason esty shut you down.. you lost everything.. Etsy is probably about 55-60% of my business and Amazon makes up most of the rest of it.. I worked my etsy site for a good 5 years before i realized I needed a domain name and my own site.. Loved indiemade as a site but they had a 300 listing limit.. so I switched to etsys Pattern websites.. ( don't really like it and have been looking at other options )  I don't do much at all with Amazon.. but I sell a crap ton of only a handful of my items there, LOL Out of the 100 or so listings I sell a lot of about 8 - 10 of those items.. and the rest is just a item here and there.. IF etsy were to close up for me.. I would put more focus on Amazon and still be alive.. LOL I think it would be very easy to bring myself up to where I am with only amazon in a pinch like that.. Either site could for whatever reason shut down or shut me down.. so I always felt it better to run about a 50-60% in either store.. and also keep a few other sites up just as a back-up in case.. It's hard to bring up a site from nothing to a profitable site.. in a short amount of time.. so keeping several sites open with limited business and work for that day something happens.. in my opinion is the way to do it.

This actually happen to me years ago on artfire.. it was my main selling venue.. I started on etsy and quickly switched to artfire.. with only a handful of items on etsy.. then artfire had a lot of site issues and I almost went out of business.. would have if i had not kept my foot in on etsy.. Then artfire had to basically rebuild the whole site and start over.. Something happened to there servers.. It was really hard to rebuild my site with artfire only to have a similar thing happen again.. Then i had enough with them and stopped selling altogether there until just recently opened back up there..   

 

[BadBob]

3 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Good information, I tend to overlook some of the things I do on a regular basis thinking it's just common sense because I've been doing it so long I forget a lot of the things I didn't know when i first started out.. It's always good to see others put out info as well.. I don't consider myself a pro at it or anything.. and many things change from one year to the next.. what I'm doing now may not be the 100% correct way of doing it right now..  Time is an asset though.. and building a following is too.. I can't imagine trying to get into the business with so many others out there doing the same things.. I got in and started a following a long time ago and I feel it was much easier to do back in the earlier days.. Still can be done.. but it's a lot of work.. and you cannot expect to just list your ads up and people flock in to buy it all up.. Takes years to get a following.. 

At one time, I spent more time promoting my products than I did making them.. there has to be a balance where you have the time to promote and also make the products.. I got to a point where i realized to make more money i needed to spend some money and start advertising.. I don't think I'd be where I am without doing some paid advertising..

I know there are some that solely make a living off only etsy.. I would never do that.. If for some reason esty shut you down.. you lost everything.. Etsy is probably about 55-60% of my business and Amazon makes up most of the rest of it.. I worked my etsy site for a good 5 years before i realized I needed a domain name and my own site.. Loved indiemade as a site but they had a 300 listing limit.. so I switched to etsys Pattern websites.. ( don't really like it and have been looking at other options )  I don't do much at all with Amazon.. but I sell a crap ton of only a handful of my items there, LOL Out of the 100 or so listings I sell a lot of about 8 - 10 of those items.. and the rest is just a item here and there.. IF etsy were to close up for me.. I would put more focus on Amazon and still be alive.. LOL I think it would be very easy to bring myself up to where I am with only amazon in a pinch like that.. Either site could for whatever reason shut down or shut me down.. so I always felt it better to run about a 50-60% in either store.. and also keep a few other sites up just as a back-up in case.. It's hard to bring up a site from nothing to a profitable site.. in a short amount of time.. so keeping several sites open with limited business and work for that day something happens.. in my opinion is the way to do it.

This actually happen to me years ago on artfire.. it was my main selling venue.. I started on etsy and quickly switched to artfire.. with only a handful of items on etsy.. then artfire had a lot of site issues and I almost went out of business.. would have if i had not kept my foot in on etsy.. Then artfire had to basically rebuild the whole site and start over.. Something happened to there servers.. It was really hard to rebuild my site with artfire only to have a similar thing happen again.. Then i had enough with them and stopped selling altogether there until just recently opened back up there..   

 

I tried two sites for a while. I could not manage it. I was working full time at the time, and I could not keep up with one and a full-time job. I retired from that job thinking that I was going to run my shop full time. That didn't work out as I planned. I have my grandson now about 4 days a week with homeschooling and all the other things I have to do the todo list keeps getting longer and I'm busier than ever. While I'm writing this my grandson has been in here three times showing me things. Right now I'm spending a lot of time promoting my shop. my sales keep slowly climbing. Even now while others seem to have decreasing sales mine are increasing.

[Rockytime]

That's good news these days!

[Puzzleguy]

Kevin you asked me sometime ago about facebook -( i think it was you ? )

we did a site but they dont allow for a cart on windows 10 -only one item per order

their site say they do have a cart - but they dont . even emailed them and asked if we were doing it wrong - we wern't

Were going to etsy ( thou maybe keep a few at facebook )- have to rethink a few things - this really is a learning experience -

 

[kmmcrafts]

3 hours ago, Puzzleguy said:

Kevin you asked me sometime ago about facebook -( i think it was you ? )

we did a site but they dont allow for a cart on windows 10 -only one item per order

their site say they do have a cart - but they dont . even emailed them and asked if we were doing it wrong - we wern't

Were going to etsy ( thou maybe keep a few at facebook )- have to rethink a few things - this really is a learning experience -

 

Yes it was me that asked about it.. I knew there wasn't a shopping cart.. which is why I asked you how you was going to do the transaction... You mentioned something about a card reader thing so I thought maybe you had that part of it figured out.. 

Sorry to hear about all the struggles with it.. Etsy is pretty easy to work with..

[BadBob]

If you have a Facebook Business Page you can add the Shop Now Button and link it to your shop. You can also post your items in the Facebook Market Place. In the last year two of my best sellers originated from the Facebook Market Place as custom orders.

 

[Puzzleguy]

On 9/6/2020 at 1:00 AM, kmmcrafts said:

Yes it was me that asked about it.. I knew there wasn't a shopping cart.. which is why I asked you how you was going to do the transaction... You mentioned something about a card reader thing so I thought maybe you had that part of it figured out.. 

Sorry to hear about all the struggles with it.. Etsy is pretty easy to work with..

Kevin thanks for your kindness !  Everything is a learning experience - but thou etsy has fees ,

for a year the costs are what a average show charges for one weekend -besides we were going to go online 

within the next couple of years anyways -the older you get the harder the shows are to do - worried more about

shipping and getting stuff out ( thou sales are slower than i expected )

figured buying boxes and shipping first class with tracking is alot cheaper than getting the free box's from USPS

( their really not free ) trying to get those fees lower - considering signing up for stamps.com or shipstation etc.

would love not to have to take stuff to the post office - They could honestly make this a college course -theirs alot to learn .

also worried about buying to much stuff I dont need right now like shipping supplies etc. Also whats the best size box for me ?

Etc, etc.

[kmmcrafts]

46 minutes ago, Puzzleguy said:

Kevin thanks for your kindness !  Everything is a learning experience - but thou etsy has fees ,

for a year the costs are what a average show charges for one weekend -besides we were going to go online 

within the next couple of years anyways -the older you get the harder the shows are to do - worried more about

shipping and getting stuff out ( thou sales are slower than i expected )

figured buying boxes and shipping first class with tracking is alot cheaper than getting the free box's from USPS

( their really not free ) trying to get those fees lower - considering signing up for stamps.com or shipstation etc.

would love not to have to take stuff to the post office - They could honestly make this a college course -theirs alot to learn .

also worried about buying to much stuff I dont need right now like shipping supplies etc. Also whats the best size box for me ?

Etc, etc.

IF, you have some things that are heavier and could use a larger box.. USPS does have free boxes that are Not the "Flat Rate".. They have regular Priority mail boxes that are free.. and I use those..

I'd start out with smaller quantities of shipping supplies and as you gain sales you'll get a feel for what you need.. I'm not sure what you make and sell so I cannot really give you any specific recommendations.. and average shipping cost..   

[new2woodwrk]

I'm going to chime in here with some information as this is what I do/did for a living (this is going to be a bit long)...

Online sales has its ups and downs.

What it really depends on is, do you want to be an expert at promoting your business (SEO as someone else mentioned which includes Analytics and a host of other tools), or do you want to be an expert at your business.

If you want to be the expert at promoting your business prepare for long hours of research,  trial and error and lots and lots of stress.

Make no mistake, learning about SEO, SEP and SEM are no small tasks! It often takes years to figure out the formulas and just when you do, the search engines change the rules and you have to start all over again, sometimes you have to start from the beginning and re-do everything you've already done! This is more common than one might think. I would refer you to research several of the Goog updates and research some of the known changes coming in the near future regarding websites, content and product selling.

Setting up a shop on some existing site (Ebay, Etsy, Amazon etc.) is a good first step.

It allows you to rely on their overall traffic and marketing to hopefully move visitors/buyers to your store. No doubt about it, it needs to be in your plan.

Another option is to hire an SEO./SEP/SEM professional and let them do their thing for you. Their job is to send traffic to your site using methods they are very familiar with which removes that learning and research curve from you. It allows you to focus on product and your business.

To decide which route to go, is a simple exercise in math...

• How much is your time worth - this is often undervalued significantly for various reasons
• How long does it take you  to replace inventory/product
• How much are products/inventory - add them all up
• How many do you hope to sell in a given time period - I tell my clients to use 1 month as a gauge.

So an example formula is:

Material cost + Hourly rate * hours worked = Baseline
Baseline *1.15 = Baseline + Overhead (coverage for utilities, wear on tools, incidentals that you may not track well in materials (like glue and such))
Baseline * 1.25 = Baseline + Overhead + Profit (Profit is just if you think you will want to expand if you don't really care about that then don't include it)

Here is an example spreadhsheet calculated at $15 per hour of hourly rate. Like I said, this is the most undervalued item in most business models

Notice the Baseline, Baseline + Overhead (No profit) and Baseline + Overhead + Profit - the markup is minimal. This is because of the $15 hr baseline! If your time is valued higher, you will make more obviously. If people are willing to pay for the product of course.

So each Table in the example would sell for $140 giving a profit of $28 each. If it takes 4 hours to make 1 table, 8 hours to make 2 etc. in a weeks time (5 days or 40 hours) you would make 16 tables for a profit of $448 a week or $1792 per month.

You increase that profit either by making more, making them faster or raising your hourly rate!

Now, take into consideration the amount of time it is going to take you to:

• Set up the sales websites
• Promote each of your sales websites
• Promote your products - different from promoting your website

Using the above baseline of $15 an example is to work an additional 20-30 hours on promotion (more at the beginning because of the learning curve). So you are spending $300 - $450 per week to do self promotion. or $1200 to $1800 per month!

Next

How much does the professional charge and what will they do for you that you won't have to do. For example, many professionals won't set up  your website stores for you, nor will they set up a main site. They will optimize them for you, but not set them up. Some will blog for you, others will not.

The more they do for you, the more you should expect to pay.

If the professional charges on Avg $1200 a month to do basic SEO/SEM/SEP you would save that baseline which you can then add to your profit model. If they are able to increase your sales by 10-20% your increased profit margin helps you expand your product lines, or hire additional help to make more product

Anyway, I'll stop here because I can go on and on about this subject.

Bottom line - is this a business or a hobby? Do you want to make a living or just make some spending money.

Thanks as always in advanced for reading

Sorry this was so long

[kmmcrafts]

7 hours ago, new2woodwrk said:

I'm going to chime in here with some information as this is what I do/did for a living (this is going to be a bit long)...

Online sales has its ups and downs.

What it really depends on is, do you want to be an expert at promoting your business (SEO as someone else mentioned which includes Analytics and a host of other tools), or do you want to be an expert at your business.

If you want to be the expert at promoting your business prepare for long hours of research,  trial and error and lots and lots of stress.

Make no mistake, learning about SEO, SEP and SEM are no small tasks! It often takes years to figure out the formulas and just when you do, the search engines change the rules and you have to start all over again, sometimes you have to start from the beginning and re-do everything you've already done! This is more common than one might think. I would refer you to research several of the Goog updates and research some of the known changes coming in the near future regarding websites, content and product selling.

Setting up a shop on some existing site (Ebay, Etsy, Amazon etc.) is a good first step.

It allows you to rely on their overall traffic and marketing to hopefully move visitors/buyers to your store. No doubt about it, it needs to be in your plan.

Another option is to hire an SEO./SEP/SEM professional and let them do their thing for you. Their job is to send traffic to your site using methods they are very familiar with which removes that learning and research curve from you. It allows you to focus on product and your business.

To decide which route to go, is a simple exercise in math...

• How much is your time worth - this is often undervalued significantly for various reasons
• How long does it take you  to replace inventory/product
• How much are products/inventory - add them all up
• How many do you hope to sell in a given time period - I tell my clients to use 1 month as a gauge.

So an example formula is:

Material cost + Hourly rate * hours worked = Baseline
Baseline *1.15 = Baseline + Overhead (coverage for utilities, wear on tools, incidentals that you may not track well in materials (like glue and such))
Baseline * 1.25 = Baseline + Overhead + Profit (Profit is just if you think you will want to expand if you don't really care about that then don't include it)

Here is an example spreadhsheet calculated at $15 per hour of hourly rate. Like I said, this is the most undervalued item in most business models

Notice the Baseline, Baseline + Overhead (No profit) and Baseline + Overhead + Profit - the markup is minimal. This is because of the $15 hr baseline! If your time is valued higher, you will make more obviously. If people are willing to pay for the product of course.

So each Table in the example would sell for $140 giving a profit of $28 each. If it takes 4 hours to make 1 table, 8 hours to make 2 etc. in a weeks time (5 days or 40 hours) you would make 16 tables for a profit of $448 a week or $1792 per month.

You increase that profit either by making more, making them faster or raising your hourly rate!

Now, take into consideration the amount of time it is going to take you to:

• Set up the sales websites
• Promote each of your sales websites
• Promote your products - different from promoting your website

Using the above baseline of $15 an example is to work an additional 20-30 hours on promotion (more at the beginning because of the learning curve). So you are spending $300 - $450 per week to do self promotion. or $1200 to $1800 per month!

Next

How much does the professional charge and what will they do for you that you won't have to do. For example, many professionals won't set up  your website stores for you, nor will they set up a main site. They will optimize them for you, but not set them up. Some will blog for you, others will not.

The more they do for you, the more you should expect to pay.

If the professional charges on Avg $1200 a month to do basic SEO/SEM/SEP you would save that baseline which you can then add to your profit model. If they are able to increase your sales by 10-20% your increased profit margin helps you expand your product lines, or hire additional help to make more product

Anyway, I'll stop here because I can go on and on about this subject.

Bottom line - is this a business or a hobby? Do you want to make a living or just make some spending money.

Thanks as always in advanced for reading

Sorry this was so long

I agree with everything you say here... There are big business's that use eBay and Amazon to sell their products because of the the site traffic.. Each site has different groups of shoppers (ie I shop eBay more than Amazon etc etc.. so the more places you're visible on the more sales you'll have.

While I agree that a personal site and branding is important.. It'd be years before it gets profitable IMO.. whether you're paying someone to help out or you're doing it yourself.. I've been just doing what I can on my own... as for the most part.. playing the social media game is just another hobby along with scroll sawing etc.. so it's good that I happen to enjoy most parts of doing this.. Won't get rich in $$ but being happy at what you do it more important than actually working for a living, LOL.. $50,000-60000 in sales a year is quite doable just playing the etsy, amazon and eBay game with scroll saw / craft products but it ain't going to happen overnight either.. I enjoy playing around with my own site too and it more than pays for itself so..  

[BadBob]

I do it all myself.

I use USPS exclusively for my shipping, and I haven't been to the post office in a year. If you have enough time, you can go to the USPS website and schedule a pickup. Or, as I have done, leave a note on the mailbox, asking them to pickups the package by the front door. The not method may depend on your mailman. I have been using reclaimed packing materials for packages I get in the mail. This can work for a while but at some point (I hope) my sales will be high enough the this will be unworkable. I keep priority mailboxes for the few times I have orders that go priority mail. You can order them online.

If you hire a professional, how do you know they know what they are doing? You don't know. Without some way to test the results, you can never know. You might spend thousands of dollars on SEO help and not have any better results than you would have had if you didn't hire them.

If you do something with SEO and the sales go up, do you know for sure that is what caused it? Perhaps it would have gone up anyway. It can take weeks or months to see the effects of changes.

90% of everything is garbage. You can find tons of advice on how to run your shop but very little of it is backed up by the numbers. Most of them do not give you any.

It's all very complicated and confusing. but on the upside, you can sit in your house in your pajamas and sell to people on the other side of the world. That is cool.

Profit is what you have left after you pay all your expenses and yourself.

[JimErn]

1 hour ago, BadBob said:

Profit is what you have left after you pay all your expenses and yourself.

I know what you are saying, and in an abstract way that is true.  But for taxes, in accounting, profit has nothing to do with paying yourself (unless you choose to file as an s-corporation which also requires you put your self on salary).  Profit is income less expense, your "pay" in a small business is what is the profit, your work has no value in accounting, though you may use an hourly rate to price your items, that rate is make believe in practicality.

IMO that is the biggest reason hobby turned business fail, the owner has little to no idea about his costs and accounting for them.  Accounting for small business is pretty easy, so do yourself a favor and learn basic accounting, and always look at cost.  Especially when considering an accounting package.  

[new2woodwrk]

4 hours ago, BadBob said:

...

1. If you hire a professional, how do you know they know what they are doing? You don't know. Without some way to test the results, you can never know. You might spend thousands of dollars on SEO help and not have any better results than you would have had if you didn't hire them.

2. If you do something with SEO and the sales go up, do you know for sure that is what caused it? Perhaps it would have gone up anyway. It can take weeks or months to see the effects of changes.

90% of everything is garbage. You can find tons of advice on how to run your shop but very little of it is backed up by the numbers. Most of them do not give you any.

It's all very complicated and confusing. but on the upside, you can sit in your house in your pajamas and sell to people on the other side of the world. That is cool.

Profit is what you have left after you pay all your expenses and yourself.

I mean no disrespect in this reply to anyone for their opinions...

1. You know how good a professional is by references. Do you hire any tom, dick or harry to fix your car or remodel your kitchen? Nope, you get references or ask around.

2. Yes you do! :"Perhaps it would have gone up anyway" - how by a magic wand? If don't do something to promote, people will not find you enmasse! It does take weeks or months to see the changes, however it would take longer if you do it yourself.

Any good internet marketer will provide reports, discussions, status updates and teach you how to interpret your own analytics. Analytics is not very difficult to interpret and can be learned in a very short time, usually within an hour or two sometimes less.

A good internet marketer will also request a period of service and a contract for that period. Example: It usually takes about 30-45 days to get indexed well. So  a good marketer is going to ask for a contract of at least 60-90 days. If at the end of that period traffic has not increased, the contract ends and no harm no foul (if of course you didn't hire one of those link bait marketers from a 3rd world country).

Having a website does not equate to people actually finding the website. Hence why many crafts people jump on the Etsy, Ebay and Amazon etc. sites - you're using their "website weight" to attract business to yourself.

One of the biggest mistakes people make with a website, 'build it and they will come". No, that is one of the fantasies promoted by sites such as godaddy etc.

If you build it, you better promote it or guess what... No one is coming, no one will find it except by accident.

Indexing is very important in website promotion and when done incorrectly can extend the time it takes for a website to be found and trafficed regularly, which is what people want.

Getting found is not that difficult, keeping visitors and getting returning visitors now THAT is what the game is about. Just be cause you have traffic doesn't mean you having "buying" traffic.

If you're smart, you promote your personal store to those websites - again adding to the THEIR "website weight" and hope your landing page is good enough to keep the visitor at your store.

Naysayers regarding internet professionals, is fine.

But if you have never hired an SEO/SEM/SEP person you are speaking from a non informed position. That's fine also, as you are entitled to your opinions.

However, opinions have weight when they are backed by actual experience and with no actual experience well, we know what opinions are since everyone has one...

How do I know it works?

Because not only have I done/do SEO/SEM/SEP, but I have also hired several to assist me with various clients, so the information I present is based on actual experience from both sides.

It's ok to not understand the logistics of internet marketing, you are correct it is very complicated - hence you hire a professional to help you get through the confusiion

Edited September 14, 2020 by new2woodwrk

[new2woodwrk]

1 hour ago, JimErn said:

I know what you are saying, and in an abstract way that is true.  But for taxes, in accounting, profit has nothing to do with paying yourself (unless you choose to file as an s-corporation which also requires you put your self on salary).  Profit is income less expense, your "pay" in a small business is what is the profit, your work has no value in accounting, though you may use an hourly rate to price your items, that rate is make believe in practicality.

IMO that is the biggest reason hobby turned business fail, the owner has little to no idea about his costs and accounting for them.  Accounting for small business is pretty easy, so do yourself a favor and learn basic accounting, and always look at cost.  Especially when considering an accounting package.  

Agreed - but having a baseline gives you a target and a business model to help move your business into a for profit model

I also agree with you and Kevin as to the reasons most hobby businesses fail.

I would be a prime example of this actually.

I enjoy the scrolling, the making of items and would love to be able to sell some of my items. Do I want it to become a for profit business? To an extent, yes.

I would like my hobby to give me enough income to pay for materials maybe even some spare change as well but a complete for profit business?

That much I don't LOVE scroll sawing nor do I have the commitment to it that would be needed to turn it into a full time business.

Part time, spare change, pay for material - works for me :0

Besides.I'm retired and want to stay that way LOL

Edited September 14, 2020 by new2woodwrk

[kmmcrafts]

I took some online SEO courses some years ago while trying to figure out how to get traffic to my site.. at one time I thought it'd be cool to get the traffic to my website that I get from etsy... But what I was taught in the coarse is outdated info these days I'm pretty sure and what was taught was just real basic info.. I've spent a lot of time researching info.. there is a lot of free info and google search is your friend.. if you have the time and energy to put into it..  I know a little about it.. but I wouldn't give much if any advice on it.. It does take usually 6-8 weeks to see traffic changes when you do website changes... at least in my experience .. 

At one time I did have my own built website but that is a job all by itself with keeping up with tax laws and everything.. I stepped back and moved my website to a etsy ( Pattern ) site as it goes through the etsy checkout process and I don't have to do any separate bookkeeping stuff.. years ago I wanted to go my own site.. maybe I had more energy then but these days I quite content just following the guidelines of venues such as amazon, etsy, eBay, zibbet etc etc.. The sales from these sites keep me hoppin and for me... I'd rather e in my shop than in front of the PC working on site updates and that sort of thing.. The shop is where I find joy... not so much behind the screen.. So much so that I ven don't care for doing listings on the sites I sell on... I have made about 400 puzzles this summer... yet I only have around 50 of them listed on etsy etc.. so I need to take time out to get these listed.. as they don't sell if they aren't on the websites, LOL  I like doing the social sites and promoting etc.. but not so much doing listings.. 

Everyone is going to have those things they love to do and hate doing with running business.. 

 

As far as hiring good SEO .. yes checking references is the best way. there are a lot of people that "think" they know how to get more traffic to a site and they probably can help a total newbie with it.. but are not going to get the best result that maybe another person could.. But that also goes with the luck of the draw.. just as it would with any mechanic to fix your car.. There are good reputable mechanics that inspect a car yet overlook and miss things.. mis-diagnose things etc etc.. There is no "perfect " person that will catch everything every time... after all.. they are all human ( hopefully  ) .. 

 

[Puzzleguy]

good advice kevin !  i know their a etsy dummies book for like 16 bucks -probably just get that

maybe a little good will come from it - been thining about linking my face book accounts to etsy

becasue i get alot of questions their - actually got a couple of decent orders recently from a business card

i gave out like 2-3 years ago -lifes full of surprises .  My daughter has been helping us -and this is all new .

Also have been looking into comission sales from local galleries - far and few between -

one which is like 3 hours from me wants me to deliver and pick up my stuff when their done around Xmas -

seems like a questionable thing to do -not knowing how profitable it may be .  

Again thank you so very much --

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Puzzleguy said:

good advice kevin !  i know their a etsy dummies book for like 16 bucks -probably just get that

maybe a little good will come from it - been thining about linking my face book accounts to etsy

becasue i get alot of questions their - actually got a couple of decent orders recently from a business card

i gave out like 2-3 years ago -lifes full of surprises .  My daughter has been helping us -and this is all new .

Also have been looking into comission sales from local galleries - far and few between -

one which is like 3 hours from me wants me to deliver and pick up my stuff when their done around Xmas -

seems like a questionable thing to do -not knowing how profitable it may be .  

Again thank you so very much --

You might look for some free Youtube videos in certain specific aspects of selling on etsy or whatever site you're looking for info on.. I bought a book years ago ( not sure what happen to the book, still around here somewhere ) and my take on the book is.. many sites change constantly to keep up with fast paced internet and search SEO stuff and by the time a book goes through publishing etc the requirements are changed.. That is why I always say.. it's really tough to do a site on your own.. as changes are made almost constantly.. so it's a full time job just to do the website stuff.. so then you're stuck doing that rather than in the shop doing what you love.. 

I think you're best bet is to research youtube videos.. look for the date the youtube videos were made.. and with youtube you can visually see the behind the scenes screen shots of the selling dashboard etc etc.. Just my opinion but I think that would be way better than any book you could get your hands on.. and free to boot.. Just your time i searching out the videos which shouldn't take too long or be too hard to do..

Try finding and watching the videos that was published in late 2019 -2020.. to get the most up to date info.. older videos and even the books will maybe give some good info to a newbie but the most current ones I think would be the most helpful..  

[Puzzleguy]

Thank you Kevin ! I appreciate it

Tony

[Puzzleguy]

On 9/14/2020 at 9:30 AM, new2woodwrk said:

Agreed - but having a baseline gives you a target and a business model to help move your business into a for profit model

I also agree with you and Kevin as to the reasons most hobby businesses fail.

I would be a prime example of this actually.

I enjoy the scrolling, the making of items and would love to be able to sell some of my items. Do I want it to become a for profit business? To an extent, yes.

I would like my hobby to give me enough income to pay for materials maybe even some spare change as well but a complete for profit business?

That much I don't LOVE scroll sawing nor do I have the commitment to it that would be needed to turn it into a full time business.

Part time, spare change, pay for material - works for me :0

Besides.I'm retired and want to stay that way LOL

Guess making this work is now my new job - You get to a certain point in your life where doing shows

keeps getting harder and harder - plus the costs for one show are about what sites like Etsy charge for a year -

remember show cost -food -travel costs like - Car -Gas-tolls- etc- hotels -theft and even sometimes s--t happens fees.

Even if shows got back to normal next year ( hoping and praying ) - The older i get the harder and costlier the events become . honestly 

they use to be fun -some still are , but some are alot of work - and some shows basically are hit and miss -

not complaining , I like scrolling  its like sending out a part of me into the world .

 

[kmmcrafts]

15 years ago when I first got interested in scroll sawing and selling work my kids was only between the ages of 3-9 years old.. and doing shows was just way to hard to handle the kids by myself and run a booth.... I only did about 5 shows ever.. and went online which for me was easy back then. Online selling has gotten a lot tougher... I wouldn't want to have to try this from scratch these days as there is a lot of competition out there now.. Having your own site back then was easy to get in searches and be reverent etc..  Now days you almost can't survive if you don't sell on a few different sites and sales from your own website if really tough to get if you don't have a following already.. I'm fortunate to have started way back then and did things to gain followers etc.. as that's a tough fight these days.. But it's still fun to mess with etsy and those online selling venues.. and still profitable but that could change with many new people coming on board.. 

Etsy just made some changes to their search algorithm and there is a big uproar in the forums about it.. Peoples things aren't getting found that was doing good.. their sales have dropped off to nothing from being one of the top sellers.. Who knows what that person is selling... but there is always those ups and downs that you cannot control on these selling venues.. Most of the changes they've done over the 10 years I've been selling on there have had very little affect on my sales.. and in some cases... helped mine but hurt others sooo you just keep on truckin and ride out their waves.. Always slow downs...  

People get a lot of business in Oct - Dec.. and think they're doing good.. then the holiday sales stop and they complain about it being dead and blame etsy for it, Hahahaha.. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by kmmcrafts

[kmmcrafts]

18 hours ago, Puzzleguy said:

Guess making this work is now my new job - You get to a certain point in your life where doing shows

keeps getting harder and harder - plus the costs for one show are about what sites like Etsy charge for a year -

remember show cost -food -travel costs like - Car -Gas-tolls- etc- hotels -theft and even sometimes s--t happens fees.

Even if shows got back to normal next year ( hoping and praying ) - The older i get the harder and costlier the events become . honestly 

they use to be fun -some still are , but some are alot of work - and some shows basically are hit and miss -

not complaining , I like scrolling  its like sending out a part of me into the world .

 

Still a lot of work... Last year in the first week of Dec. I sold $10,000 in products... don't forget.. you have to package those up and get them in the mail.. Considering that most of what I sell is priced below $80 and a big portion is just Christmas ornaments at $15-20 range.. It's still a lot of work.. Just sayin.. If you have the inventory you're good to go.. You'll also find about 50 emails a day of people asking if you can make this or that.. can this be personalized with a name etc etc etc.. Any selling of crafts you do.. be it shows or online.. it's going to be busy from Oct. through the holidays.. That's when I make my money to live off of for the next year.. I try keep around $60,000 in sell-able inventory through the season.. I also try to fulfill those custom request that come in..

My biggest complaint I think is... Customers messaging me for detail that are in the listing description.. When you create a listing.. use many paragraphs and double space them.. It's easier to read them and it'll help your customer read more of the listing which will reduce the amount of questions you'll get.. I used to get a lot of questions about how big a piece is.. I'm now starting to use some photos with my ruler to show in pictures... you'll find many do not READ the description and are QUICK to ask what is in your description if they would READ IT, Hahahaha..  Breaking descriptions up in a lot of paragraphs helps a lot too. rather than bunching it all up in one paragraph..

It gets pretty hectic in Nov - Dec. trying to keep up with things as inventory starts getting depleted by the first couple weeks of Nov. but you can't make enough of the hot seller before hand because you really don't know what that hot seller is until it's too late..Hahahaha..  I'm usually ready for the slow down in Mid January.. but then it's time to get busy with my tax info..