Looking for opinions on this saw

[ben2008]

EXCALIBUR 16" Scroll Saw - 1.3A Variable Speed  EX16

I believe it is made in Taiwan.

I saw it on Amazon for $499.00 plus tax and free shipping.

I have a 21 EX that is about 9 years old and works just fine.

[dgman]

If it’s brand new and is the Excalibur brand, it is made in China. I would not buy it. But that’s just me.

[kmmcrafts]

I may be wrong but last I knew the only Excalibur saw made in china is the 21" saw.. He is asking about the 16" saw.. I think the 16" is still made in Taiwan? 

[ben2008]

2 hours ago, dgman said:

If it’s brand new and is the Excalibur brand, it is made in China. I would not buy it. But that’s just me.

I agree, if it's made in China I'm not interested. That's what I'm trying to determine if it is made in China or Taiwan. I asked that question on Amazon, but have not received a reply yet.

[OCtoolguy]

42 minutes ago, ben2008 said:

I agree, if it's made in China I'm not interested. That's what I'm trying to determine if it is made in China or Taiwan. I asked that question on Amazon, but have not received a reply yet.

Ben, where are you located? I have a green 16" Taiwan saw for sale. I'm asking $500 for it. I'm in So Cal.

[ben2008]

1 hour ago, octoolguy said:

Ben, where are you located? I have a green 16" Taiwan saw for sale. I'm asking $500 for it. I'm in So Cal.

About 2,297.4 miles from you. I'll be right over.

1 hour ago, octoolguy said:

 

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by ben2008

[kmmcrafts]

I'm thinking it is made in China but I have no real sure evidence of that being factual, LOL 

In doing some research I found that the model number has a code at the end which is the same code that the EX -21 uses.  This is the model for EXZNEX-21K the EX-21 I'm not sure what the EXZNEX-21K means but the same thing is on the 16 inch saw. The original EX just shows EX-21.. so assuming with the odd looking model number that maybe that is what they did to decipher if its a China made saw? 

The King 16" saw is supposed to be the same saw as the "Old" Excalibur.. which the cheapest 16" model I found was $699. Walmart shows it for $599 on google shopping but when you go the the page is shows $699 and sold through / by woodcraft. Amazon has a pretty nice return policy so I suppose you could always buy it.. Look on the side of the box to see where it's made from then refuse the shipment, LOL

[ben2008]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

I'm thinking it is made in China but I have no real sure evidence of that being factual, LOL 

In doing some research I found that the model number has a code at the end which is the same code that the EX -21 uses.  This is the model for EXZNEX-21K the EX-21 I'm not sure what the EXZNEX-21K means but the same thing is on the 16 inch saw. The original EX just shows EX-21.. so assuming with the odd looking model number that maybe that is what they did to decipher if its a China made saw? 

The King 16" saw is supposed to be the same saw as the "Old" Excalibur.. which the cheapest 16" model I found was $699. Walmart shows it for $599 on google shopping but when you go the the page is shows $699 and sold through / by woodcraft. Amazon has a pretty nice return policy so I suppose you could always buy it.. Look on the side of the box to see where it's made from then refuse the shipment, LOL

That was my thoughts also. Although it does look quite similar to the original EX-16 and the King 16" made in Taiwan. I like the large 2 1/2"  dust collection port on the side. Also Amazon gives you a nice 30 day return policy. I'm still waiting to hear back from Amazon.

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, ben2008 said:

That was my thoughts also. Although it does look quite similar to the original EX-16 and the King 16" made in Taiwan. I like the large 2 1/2"  dust collection port on the side. Also Amazon gives you a nice 30 day return policy. I'm still waiting to hear back from Amazon.

Without looking at the tag on the side you really wouldn't know. I bought my EX-21 back in 2017 second hand however still sealed in the box, This was during the time where EX saws was sold out everywhere and rumors that they went under. I "thought" I had scored a great saw at a great price at $340. Nobody knew anything about them being made in China yet etc. I run my saw for dang near two years before I even realized my saw was one of those China made ones, LOL Though I will say I was NOT impressed with it at all and wondered how everyone loved theirs so much. I did finally do a full rebuild to it and used all the parts from Seyco for the original EX saws.. But I did find that the end cap "rocker assemblies " are a different size and wont work so I had to piece that portion together with swapping bearings etc. over to the old assembly. The square tubing that enclose the arms is what is different.. the tubing is a smaller size tubing by approximately 1/8", other than that there really was no difference.. 

The blade chucks was junk.. holes for the set screw didn't match up to to the back of where you install the blade so you had to push the blade to that back and then pull it forward an 1/16 inch or so to get it to even hit the clamping screws, LOL Once I got the Pegas chucks.. no issues really with the saw other than some minor things that loctite thread locker didn't fix.  because the saw liked un adjusting itself. Now the saw runs decent. Certainly not a saw for someone that isn't mechanical minded. Not a bad saw if one don't mind tinkering to make it work right so long as you get the thing for free or someone pays you to take it, .. I'd buy another one so long as it was less than $100 with the intention to buy the pegas clamps and intention that I'll need to spend $120 for the "good" EX parts from Ray very soon as my saw had no grease whatsoever in the bearings when I took it apart. LOL     

[ben2008]

24 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Without looking at the tag on the side you really wouldn't know. I bought my EX-21 back in 2017 second hand however still sealed in the box, This was during the time where EX saws was sold out everywhere and rumors that they went under. I "thought" I had scored a great saw at a great price at $340. Nobody knew anything about them being made in China yet etc. I run my saw for dang near two years before I even realized my saw was one of those China made ones, LOL Though I will say I was NOT impressed with it at all and wondered how everyone loved theirs so much. I did finally do a full rebuild to it and used all the parts from Seyco for the original EX saws.. But I did find that the end cap "rocker assemblies " are a different size and wont work so I had to piece that portion together with swapping bearings etc. over to the old assembly. The square tubing that enclose the arms is what is different.. the tubing is a smaller size tubing by approximately 1/8", other than that there really was no difference.. 

The blade chucks was junk.. holes for the set screw didn't match up to to the back of where you install the blade so you had to push the blade to that back and then pull it forward an 1/16 inch or so to get it to even hit the clamping screws, LOL Once I got the Pegas chucks.. no issues really with the saw other than some minor things that loctite thread locker didn't fix.  because the saw liked un adjusting itself. Now the saw runs decent. Certainly not a saw for someone that isn't mechanical minded. Not a bad saw if one don't mind tinkering to make it work right so long as you get the thing for free or someone pays you to take it, .. I'd buy another one so long as it was less than $100 with the intention to buy the pegas clamps and intention that I'll need to spend $120 for the "good" EX parts from Ray very soon as my saw had no grease whatsoever in the bearings when I took it apart. LOL     

You convinced me. I'll pass. Maybe 20 or so years ago I may have attempted to rebuild a saw, not anymore. 

I just might take a good look at the King 16" scroll saw over at Woodcraft. Seems to be a solid machine. Yes, it's more money.  I really need a smaller saw for the small space I am going to set up for. Plus, I just can't haul those larger saws around anymore. I just may put my 9 year old, like new EX 21 for sale on our local Craigslist..  Thanks for your input Kevin

Ben

Edited July 13, 2021 by ben2008

[OCtoolguy]

41 minutes ago, ben2008 said:

You convinced me. I'll pass. Maybe 20 or so years ago I may have attempted to rebuild a saw, not anymore. 

I just might take a good look at the King 16" scroll saw over at Woodcraft. Seems to be a solid machine. Yes, it's more money.  I really need a smaller saw for the small space I am going to set up for. Plus, I just can't haul those larger saws around anymore. I just may put my 9 year old, like new EX 21 for sale on our local Craigslist..  Thanks for your input Kevin

Ben

Ben, maybe a 3000 mile road trip is in order. Lol.

[ben2008]

1 minute ago, octoolguy said:

Ben, maybe a 3000 mile road trip is in order. Lol.

Actually, round trip is about 4,600. LOL

[kmmcrafts]

6 hours ago, ben2008 said:

You convinced me. I'll pass. Maybe 20 or so years ago I may have attempted to rebuild a saw, not anymore. 

I just might take a good look at the King 16" scroll saw over at Woodcraft. Seems to be a solid machine. Yes, it's more money.  I really need a smaller saw for the small space I am going to set up for. Plus, I just can't haul those larger saws around anymore. I just may put my 9 year old, like new EX 21 for sale on our local Craigslist..  Thanks for your input Kevin

Ben

Well if you decide to sell the EX-21 shoot me a message, you're only about 200-250 round trip from me.. a plus is.. my daughter works over in Southgate and she currently living in Fowlerville so she drives 200 miles a day for work ( round trip ). I just finished up rebuilding her motor in her Jeep.. Did the first start up today... I need to get over that way and get my Jeep back from her before she wears that one out too, LOL  

[ben2008]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

Well if you decide to sell the EX-21 shoot me a message, you're only about 200-250 round trip from me.. a plus is.. my daughter works over in Southgate and she currently living in Fowlerville so she drives 200 miles a day for work ( round trip ). I just finished up rebuilding her motor in her Jeep.. Did the first start up today... I need to get over that way and get my Jeep back from her before she wears that one out too, LOL  

Ok, will do, if I decide to sell it.  You will be the first to know. I'll make a decision in a week or 2 as soon as I figure out what type of saw I will buy.

[OCtoolguy]

10 hours ago, ben2008 said:

Actually, round trip is about 4,600. LOL

Yes, but what a great vacation and to have something to look forward to once you get home. Win-win!

 

[kmmcrafts]

10 hours ago, ben2008 said:

Ok, will do, if I decide to sell it.  You will be the first to know. I'll make a decision in a week or 2 as soon as I figure out what type of saw I will buy.

Hey Ben, You might want to find out the weight of each saw.. I've read that the 16" EX isn't hardly any lighter than the 21". You're not saving all that much in space either.. Hate to see you buy a 16" saw only to be disappointed in not being light enough or the size not being enough smaller. The 16" shares the same mounting platform with the 21" I believe.. 

[ben2008]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

Hey Ben, You might want to find out the weight of each saw.. I've read that the 16" EX isn't hardly any lighter than the 21". You're not saving all that much in space either.. Hate to see you buy a 16" saw only to be disappointed in not being light enough or the size not being enough smaller. The 16" shares the same mounting platform with the 21" I believe.. 

Hi Kevin-I'm not interested in the EX 16 any longer. You basically talked me out of it yesterday. I was interested more in the King 16" made in Taiwan. That saw has a size of 32 x 16.75 x 19 inches and weighs about 64 lbs. It's about the size of my EX 21 that I have now. I have ruled that one out also. You are correct. No sense going to a smaller table and have the saw basically the same size and weight as the saw (EX-21 )I already have. Looks like I'm stuck right now trying to find a smaller saw and also lighter. I'm not buying any of those Chinese 16" saws on Amazon either.

What actually looks like a good option for me is the DeWalt 20" saw. It is a bit smaller than the King 16" and also lighter, The size is  29.5 x 19.5 x 12.1 inches and weighs 56 lbs. About 8 lbs lighter that the King EX-16. The DeWalt however, does not have built in dust collection though. That is a drawback for me. If I'm going to spend $600 to $800 on a new saw. It has to have built in dust collection. I did see a 18" Jet that has dust collection built in and made in Taiwan. It's available at Home Depot. I'm going to check that one out. 

All the dimensions and weights are from Amazon.

The more research I do the more confusing it gets. I Sometimes I think I'll just stick with what i have and forget about a new saw. On the other hand, the thought of a new woodworking toy kind of perks me up and gets the adrenaline going again. 

[kmmcrafts]

3 minutes ago, ben2008 said:

Hi Kevin-I'm not interested in the EX 16 any longer. You basically talked me out of it yesterday. I was interested more in the King 16" made in Taiwan. That saw has a size of 32 x 16.75 x 19 inches and weighs about 64 lbs. It's about the size of my EX 21 that I have now. I have ruled that one out also. You are correct. No sense going to a smaller table and have the saw basically the same size and weight as the saw (EX-21 )I already have. Looks like I'm stuck right now trying to find a smaller saw and also lighter. I'm not buying any of those Chinese 16" saws on Amazon either.

What actually looks like a good option for me is the DeWalt 20" saw. It is a bit smaller than the King 16" and also lighter, The size is  29.5 x 19.5 x 12.1 inches and weighs 56 lbs. About 8 lbs lighter that the King EX-16. The DeWalt however, does not have built in dust collection though. That is a drawback for me. If I'm going to spend $600 to $800 on a new saw. It has to have built in dust collection. I did see a 18" Jet that has dust collection built in and made in Taiwan. It's available at Home Depot. I'm going to check that one out. 

All the dimensions and weights are from Amazon.

The more research I do the more confusing it gets. I Sometimes I think I'll just stick with what i have and forget about a new saw. On the other hand, the thought of a new woodworking toy kind of perks me up and gets the adrenaline going again. 

That Jet weighs in as the same as the EX, and King as they are the same saw basically.. made in the same place sharing mostly the same parts. I understand about getting a new toy though.. 

I'm not sure where Porter Cable saws are made but they are a bit smaller and "I think" maybe lighter. I believe they have some sort of dust port on them? If you have deep enough pockets I think the Hegners are pretty small and light weight for the small 14" saw and they also have a dust port for a vacuum. 

[ben2008]

3 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

That Jet weighs in as the same as the EX, and King as they are the same saw basically.. made in the same place sharing mostly the same parts. I understand about getting a new toy though.. 

I'm not sure where Porter Cable saws are made but they are a bit smaller and "I think" maybe lighter. I believe they have some sort of dust port on them? If you have deep enough pockets I think the Hegners are pretty small and light weight for the small 14" saw and they also have a dust port for a vacuum. 

  Take a closer look at blade clamps on the 18" Jet. No comparison to the King or EX The Jet saw weighs about 57 pounds. The King weighs 64 pounds. Every pound counts when you are in your 80s.

I did look at the 14" Hegner. It is a single speed saw. Not interested.

I will take another look at the Porter Cable. But if I remember, the reviews were not very good.

 

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, ben2008 said:

  Take a closer look at blade clamps on the 18" Jet. No comparison to the King or EX The Jet saw weighs about 57 pounds. The King weighs 64 pounds. Every pound counts when you are in your 80s.

I did look at the 14" Hegner. It is a single speed saw. Not interested.

I will take another look at the Porter Cable. But if I remember, the reviews were not very good.

 

Yes I knew the clamps was different, I wonder where they lost the weight from because the basics construction of the saw is the same as the King and Excalibur. Maybe they made the table top from Aluminum and then coated it.. Not sure but hard to believe there is that much difference in weight considering it is slightly larger than the 16" and those clamps I would think would add weight. The upper clamping is two bearings in it ( I believe ) and the lower clamp is like the Hawk Barrel style clamp. I've looked at and toyed with this saw in person at LLJohnson Workbench in Charlotte MI. Pretty cool how that upper clamp works.. The reviews from people that have them seem to not like the clamp, especially the lower barrel clamp... but then many folks also don't like the ones on the Hawk.. I never had a issue with mine.. Since you already use the Hawk ones you should understand how to use them correctly.  The 22" model had designed the table too high and if you use reverse teeth blades the design made it to where the reverse teeth never even get used because of the design flaw. Also the 22 inch has only about 2-3/4" of table in front of the blade. but they seem to have made the 18" with nearly 4" which was a little more than the EX and Pegas type saws..   

[ben2008]

2 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Yes I knew the clamps was different, I wonder where they lost the weight from because the basics construction of the saw is the same as the King and Excalibur. Maybe they made the table top from Aluminum and then coated it.. Not sure but hard to believe there is that much difference in weight considering it is slightly larger than the 16" and those clamps I would think would add weight. The upper clamping is two bearings in it ( I believe ) and the lower clamp is like the Hawk Barrel style clamp. I've looked at and toyed with this saw in person at LLJohnson Workbench in Charlotte MI. Pretty cool how that upper clamp works.. The reviews from people that have them seem to not like the clamp, especially the lower barrel clamp... but then many folks also don't like the ones on the Hawk.. I never had a issue with mine.. Since you already use the Hawk ones you should understand how to use them correctly.  The 22" model had designed the table too high and if you use reverse teeth blades the design made it to where the reverse teeth never even get used because of the design flaw. Also the 22 inch has only about 2-3/4" of table in front of the blade. but they seem to have made the 18" with nearly 4" which was a little more than the EX and Pegas type saws..   

I haven't made any type of decision yet. Still researching. As I said, I may just stick with what i have. The reviews for the Jet on Home Depot were all 100%, 5 star. The Hawk Barrel style clamp is not an issue with me after nearly 30 years. I bought extra barrels for my RBI and most of the time I keep them loaded and ready to go.

I'm just a hobbyist and I have been approved for about 6 to 8 hundred bucks by the other half.  This is my only hobby now. If I had my way I would buy another Hawk. I no longer drive and can't get around to find a used one. I would buy a used Hawk in decent shape in a nano second. My old RBI is still humming along nicely. But it's old like me and could just stop. Then I'm stuck with the EX. No thanks. I'm  not as big a fan for the EX-21 though. On a scale of 1 to 5 I only give it a 2 1/2. It's probably just me though. I think the Jet would be more to my liking. The Jet is ready to go right out of the box according to some on the Home Depot reviews. That's what I need.

I forgot to mention on the EX-21 I have the new Pegas blade clamps installed. I thought it would make a difference. It didn't, at least for me it didn't. I do have issues with my hands though, especially trying to get that lower part of the blade in is a real chore for me. Using the braille method to install a blade does not work well for me. It's quiet and cuts just fine. It's just the blade installation that is the issue with me. I may want to sell the EX before I decide what to buy. I'll let you know.

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by ben2008

[OCtoolguy]

10 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Hey Ben, You might want to find out the weight of each saw.. I've read that the 16" EX isn't hardly any lighter than the 21". You're not saving all that much in space either.. Hate to see you buy a 16" saw only to be disappointed in not being light enough or the size not being enough smaller. The 16" shares the same mounting platform with the 21" I believe.. 

That's true. I have both and they are both quite heavy.

 

[OCtoolguy]

If the problem is getting it upstairs, why not just bring your favorite saw up there once and be done with it? I'm not understanding I guess.

[ben2008]

40 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

If the problem is getting it upstairs, why not just bring your favorite saw up there once and be done with it? I'm not understanding I guess.

The RBI Hawk is a behemoth compared to the EX. It weighs a ton. I would have to remove it from the stand and place it on another lower stand. I have no desire to do that. I need to sit comfortably to scroll. Besides, it is set up to do larger projects. I have my workbench right next to it downstairs with all my tools within a few feet. I do not have that upstairs. Just a small table. I only want to do small projects upstairs. It would make more sense for me to take apart the EX-21. But I don't want to do that either. I really want to sell it as is.  If that makes sense.  The way it stands right now, I will probably just hang onto what I have. I can't make up my mind which saw I want anyway. I'll just step back for a while.

Edited July 15, 2021 by ben2008

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, ben2008 said:

The RBI Hawk is a behemoth compared to the EX. It weighs a ton. I would have to remove it from the stand and place it on another lower stand. I have no desire to do that. I need to sit comfortably to scroll. Besides, it is set up to do larger projects. I have my workbench right next to it downstairs with all my tools within a few feet. I do not have that upstairs. Just a small table. I only want to do small projects upstairs. It would make more sense for me to take apart the EX-21. But I don't want to do that either. I really want to sell it as is.  If that makes sense.  The way it stands right now, I will probably just hang onto what I have. I can't make up my mind which saw I want anyway. I'll just step back for a while.

Rbi hawk makes a set of legs for your saw that would allow you to sit, even in a wheelchair, at that saw. About $250 for the setup. Check it out.