People profiting from other artists' ideas

[Ber Gueda]

I would like to ask those of you that sell your creations (through the internet or at fairs) if you have ever found yourselves in the situation where someone else is selling one of your own patterns or articles, and how do you deal with it.

For example: I have found all around the web (pinterest, etsy...) people selling patterns of a French artist called Jean-Bernard Germe. He is the author of these very well-known patterns:

 https://foxchapelpublishing.com/products/making-wooden-people-pets-with-personality?utm_campaign=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND&utm_content=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND&utm_id=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND&utm_medium=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND&utm_source=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND&utm_term=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND

How can you deal with it? Can you do anything to avoid people making profit of your ideas? 

Did you have any bad experiences?

[BadBob]

3 hours ago, Ber Gueda said:

I would like to ask those of you that sell your creations (through the internet or at fairs) if you have ever found yourselves in the situation where someone else is selling one of your own patterns or articles, and how do you deal with it.

I haven't had an issue with this because I sell royalty-free products, and the patterns are available free or at minimal cost to anyone. However, I have seen many posts about people who have this issue in the Goimagine and Etsy groups and forums. My take is that you can't do much about it unless you want to hire lawyers, and if they are outside the US, good luck with that. You might find answers here:

Goimagine Community Forum

Goimagine Official Makers Group Facebook

[barb.j.enders]

I have only sold at craft sales and no intention on going online.  In the 5 years I have been selling I have only seen one other person doing scroll saw work. Thankfully his stuff was different from what I was doing.  There have been lots of woodworkers doing cutting boards, turning, chess boards etc.  I do puzzles, brain teasers, wall plaques, home decor, and intarsia.  I don't have a lot of competition.  I look at the other vendors and there are always 2 or more jewelry makers, sewers, crochet items etc.

[TAIrving]

5 hours ago, Ber Gueda said:

I would like to ask those of you that sell your creations (through the internet or at fairs) if you have ever found yourselves in the situation where someone else is selling one of your own patterns or articles, and how do you deal with it.

For example: I have found all around the web (pinterest, etsy...) people selling patterns of a French artist called Jean-Bernard Germe. He is the author of these very well-known patterns:

 https://foxchapelpublishing.com/products/making-wooden-people-pets-with-personality?utm_campaign=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND&utm_content=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND&utm_id=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND&utm_medium=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND&utm_source=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND&utm_term=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND

How can you deal with it? Can you do anything to avoid people making profit of your ideas? 

Did you have any bad experiences?

I have the same concerns and have seen "People and Pets" figures for sale.

I also have a copy of the book.  I looked for restrictions on the use of the patterns and this is what I found.  "Readers may make copies of these patterns for personal use.  The patterns themselves, however, are not to be duplicated for resale or distribution under any circumstances."  It does not address or restrict the sale of figures cut from the patterns.  

Other sellers of patterns have different restrictions on their use.  You have to read the restrictions for each pattern seller.  

[kmmcrafts]

First of all, I don't think you can do anything about it other than alert the original artist so they're aware of this. The original artist can request these be taken down and pursue it further if they do not comply. I believe it has to be the original artist to pursue it because many times there are sellers / distributors that sell for the original artist.. For instance, Sue Mey has patterns on her site but the same patterns can also be purchased from many other websites too..

Sadly it only takes one person to illegally post a pattern on Pinterest and these other sites and before you know it everyone seem to think that because the pattern was there available that it's free to do whatever with.. This is why I try to always make products that I sell from patterns directly from the artist with their permission. Some pattern sellers have quantity restrictions of how many you can make etc. Sue Mey is an example of that.. 10 products per pattern.. so when I sell 10 of them I go buy the same pattern I already have to comply with her restrictions.. Not exactly sure how she could prove that someone made more than 10 but it's there so I do my best to comply with that.   

 

[Ber Gueda]

Well, it seems there is not much you can do apart from warning those who might be using unlawfully one's creation. I don't think that hiring lawyer services to avoid it might be an effective solution since it might cost more than the lost profit.  

[JimNC]

I know many artist, crafters, makers sell stuff on web (pinterest, etsy...) but it my opinion is that you may sell a item but you may have another hundred or so people use these sites just whom steal your ideas. But this happens at shows too. I have had people take  pictures of our stuff and if you give them the "look" they say they are sending a the picture to show "someone".  I have had someone even measure a item. This past fall I have a woodworker who made pens and had his booth next to me two or three years. This past fall he  now all a sudden shows up with items the same as I sell and set up next to me. 

I guess I don't have answer to your question other to your own thing.  

[Ber Gueda]

On 3/3/2025 at 5:29 PM, JimNC said:

I know many artist, crafters, makers sell stuff on web (pinterest, etsy...) but it my opinion is that you may sell a item but you may have another hundred or so people use these sites just whom steal your ideas. But this happens at shows too. I have had people take  pictures of our stuff and if you give them the "look" they say they are sending a the picture to show "someone".  I have had someone even measure a item. This past fall I have a woodworker who made pens and had his booth next to me two or three years. This past fall he  now all a sudden shows up with items the same as I sell and set up next to me. 

I guess I don't have answer to your question other to your own thing.  

Thank you for your reply, Jim. It's sad that it works that way even at fairs, where the probablity that you'll meet every year is almost 100%.

[Roberta Moreton]

I have made and sold People and Pets items. I do NOT give the patterns to anyone.  I never give patterns to people. I feel that giving a pattern to someone is theft. The designer shouldn’t be paid for their work. Even Steve Good asks that we direct people to his blog instead of giving his patterns to someone.  The only exception is if I am using it to teach someone. 

[Jim Finn]

On 2/27/2025 at 2:16 AM, Ber Gueda said:

I would like to ask those of you that sell your creations (through the internet or at fairs) if you have ever found yourselves in the situation where someone else is selling one of your own patterns or articles, and how do you deal with it.

For example: I have found all around the web (pinterest, etsy...) people selling patterns of a French artist called Jean-Bernard Germe. He is the author of these very well-known patterns:

 https://foxchapelpublishing.com/products/making-wooden-people-pets-with-personality?utm_campaign=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND&utm_content=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND&utm_id=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND&utm_medium=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND&utm_source=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND&utm_term=BLOG_INTERNAL_MAKINGWOODENPEOPLE_BOOKLET_FREEPATTERN%2BMANSBESTFRIEND

How can you deal with it? Can you do anything to avoid people making profit of your ideas? 

Did you have any bad experiences?

If you do not want anyone copying your stuff  do not post it!

[Scrappile]

I guess I do not understand most of it.  I can buy a used book, which I do. Most books I read are used off eBay.  No one says anything about copyright.  What about a used scroll saw pattern book, which I have purchased several of, off eBay?  I use the patterns; is that bad?  I do not know.  How is that different than using some pattern I find on the internet?   It is all very confusing.  In my opinion, a law that is confusing is not really good.  It led to a dilemma I have come across many times.  If I purchase a pattern and later decide I am never going to use it, can I gift it to someone else?  I asked this of a pattern maker once, and the person got very upset with me for even asking. The answer was a less than polite NO!  However, if I had purchased the pattern and had it sent to someone other than myself, as a gift, that was okay.  It all gets very confusing. 

[BadBob]

11 hours ago, Scrappile said:

I can buy a used book, which I do. Most books I read are used off eBay.  No one says anything about copyright.

Every paper book has copyright information in the front of the book. You can legally copy the patterns for your personal use, but you can't copy them and give them away or sell them. Some books, also usually somewhere in the front, will tell you what you can do with the things you make. They will say things like "for personal use only" or limit the number you can make to sell. Some don't have any restrictions. All original creations are copyrighted as soon as you create them.

If you sell online through a platform like Etsy and you post copyrighted or trademarked items, your listing can be shut down, or worse, your entire shop can be closed. I had a listing shut down because of a word in a listing that was trademarked by a German company.

 

[Ber Gueda]

On 3/16/2025 at 6:13 PM, Jim Finn said:

If you do not want anyone copying your stuff  do not post it!

I do not think this is a suitable option. Following this idea, you could also say that if you do not want to be robbed or assaulted at the street, just don't go out and stay at home. 

[kmmcrafts]

On 3/16/2025 at 7:28 PM, Scrappile said:

I guess I do not understand most of it.  I can buy a used book, which I do. Most books I read are used off eBay.  No one says anything about copyright.  What about a used scroll saw pattern book, which I have purchased several of, off eBay?  I use the patterns; is that bad?  I do not know.  How is that different than using some pattern I find on the internet?   It is all very confusing.  In my opinion, a law that is confusing is not really good.  It led to a dilemma I have come across many times.  If I purchase a pattern and later decide I am never going to use it, can I gift it to someone else?  I asked this of a pattern maker once, and the person got very upset with me for even asking. The answer was a less than polite NO!  However, if I had purchased the pattern and had it sent to someone other than myself, as a gift, that was okay.  It all gets very confusing. 

I don't know but you bring up a good point that I hadn't thought of. I have a boatload of the old scrolling magazines and many pattern books from Fox Chapel.. I would assume you could sell the books under a fair use or whatever clause.. I've never seen or heard of anyone being in trouble with selling their old books that they no longer need / want. BUT digital patterns is a whole different thing.. there is no real physical copy it's just digital files.. so I would guess that you cannot sell those when no longer wanted  / needed..  That's kinda how I see it anyway.. I believe most all digital files state you cannot create copies to sell.. so there is no physical item to sell unless you made a physical copy which is against the copyright terms..   

[Scrappile]

47 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

I don't know but you bring up a good point that I hadn't thought of. I have a boatload of the old scrolling magazines and many pattern books from Fox Chapel.. I would assume you could sell the books under a fair use or whatever clause.. I've never seen or heard of anyone being in trouble with selling their old books that they no longer need / want. BUT digital patterns is a whole different thing.. there is no real physical copy it's just digital files.. so I would guess that you cannot sell those when no longer wanted  / needed..  That's kinda how I see it anyway.. I believe most all digital files state you cannot create copies to sell.. so there is no physical item to sell unless you made a physical copy which is against the copyright terms..   

How about if I printed and sent the hard copy to someone?  It is all so convoluted and hard to understand. I appreciate those that make patterns and sell them. But the rules need to be clearly stated and legal.  

[kmmcrafts]

26 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

How about if I printed and sent the hard copy to someone?  It is all so convoluted and hard to understand. I appreciate those that make patterns and sell them. But the rules need to be clearly stated and legal.  

It is confusing but the way I understand it is for digital patterns that you download you "cannot make copies to give or sell" only you can make copies to use for yourself. Now that said.. I'm not sure how that would work if you wanted to gift a pattern to a friend.. ie if I wanted to buy a pattern and send it to you as a gift.. Not sure how that would work out.. I would assume you should be able to do that so long as you are giving the original copy and then deleting it from the device.. There's not much of a way to really prove you deleted it etc. though so I don't know... Kind of the same thing with some designers such as Sue Mey.. she has written on her rules that you can only make 10 copies after that you need to repurchase the pattern.. not that I would cheat this system but how does she prove that anyone made more than 10 copies? LOL.. I inquired with her about how to get a commercial license for a few of her designs that are big sellers for me.. her response was it's very expensive and I'm better off just re-purchasing every 10 copies, LOL.. But the issue is for me is.. I sell hundreds of these a year and even trying to keep track of that is like bookkeeping for my taxes which I hate doing so I quit selling those items.. 

Another one that gets me is.. 

Today I purchased a couple laser patterns and in the terms of use they state this:

— Only PHYSICAL small commercial use is allowed

— YOU MAY NOT RESELL OR DISTRIBUTE THE DIGITAL FILES IN ANY WAY

BUT what do they consider "small commercial use" ? who determines the size of business use of the pattern, LOL.. One person may think small commercial use is 100,000 produced a year while the next might think 10 produced.. That part of the terms is about as clear as mud.. Many of these designers are less than professional with their terms and I think they just make up something to help deter miss-use but if they were to take a case to court and a judge reads the ( small commercial use ) he probably would laugh at that.. how does anything like that hold up in court.  

[Jim Finn]

If I decide to make. let's say "a chair" is it  copyinging someones elses "ART"   Have may people photographing my stuff and some ask me and It is OK.  I have NEVER seen anyone make a product like mine.  Never after 15  years!