JTTHECLOCKMAN

I like your mix of woods. Neat.

I said I was not going to make comments on this issue because it will get locked as the other one did if pressed too much. I did not call Doug, he called me. I resolved to let it play out as long as it would. I did a fix around to make them work to get me through the fall season. I too have other saws that I could easily fell back if needed but I am mechanically inclined so I can work around many things that come up on various tools. But the point is what if someone was not and depended on the parts whatever they may be. It is just not fair to customers to run a business on shoestrings especially one with that rep. As I said they keep it up and there are other saws hitting the market that are making inroads and climbing the want to have ladder. I could tell from his voice he did not care if I cancelled or continued. He said he would like to continue to have my business and I told him I will see what happens in the future. Again these are not $500 saws (brand new) At least I expect a little more emphasis on service. Maybe the new way of thinking and I am old school. Maybe they stocked a few parts and put them on the shelf when mine was made. It is not like parts take up alot of real estate on a shelf. Kevin said it before there has not been much changing on these saws over the years except mainly the motors and now the blade positioning thing so why not keep standard parts available and if it is a money thing then get the heck out of the business. I am sure others have voiced their disapproval to them and just maybe something will become of it. I hope so. But right now I warn anyone buying an RBI saw weather new or old parts and service maybe a thing to deal with. Good luck.

Yes RBI saws are some of the best on the market so do not get me wrong when I went on the rage of poor service. But alot has happened in the scrollsaw world over the years and there are good quality saws on the market. For the price we pay for RBI saw you would hope parts and service would be better. Not getting into the small family business thing because to me that is BS and service should be better. But have no complaints for all the years I had these saws and all the time spent cutting on them that the only things I needed to replace is the blade holders and the front tension lever. Things that normally wear out. Knock on wood I never replaced or oiled or did anything with bearings on those saws and they are still cutting like the day I bought them and I have quite abit of time and wear on these saws. I do hope things improve also.

Nilus Orth did not leave Bushton. He is the President of the company. He is the one who just sent me another email telling me of my tracking numbers. Maybe he stepped aside for awhile I have no idea but he is still there. I have had no reason to deal with this group of people before this. Any dealings I had were with the original owners when I bought my new saws. Back then I bought them at a woodworking show and they had reps going around to all the shows representing and showing their saws. Hegner did the same and that is how I bought that one too. Got show price when getting show prices actually meant something, and one of my RBIs I got the show saw for even less. heck all I had to do was come back when show was over and they did not have to cart to next show. Got a good deal on it. I see Rolf did the same thing as I mentioned I did with that plastic clip. I made a spring steel one and it is better than what they had and I have no problem with it. Very easy to do. From what you are saying they did finally change that. I told the original people of that problem years ago and I believe others did too. Those were the days when you pick the phone up and there was someone to help you right there. I have no idea if things will improve there but still only 3 guys in shop and they work when not out farming. Doug went into the small family business thing but I reminded him that I too am a small family business so as I said I did not want to hear excuses. He did not even offer to send a couple dozen blades as a sorry gift or anything so still not my favorite company to do business with. Here is hoping things improve and all you RBI owners good luck when dealing with them.

Doug mentioned a women as part of the problem but did not go into details and I did not care. That could be the same as Kevin talks about. Those 2 people are the ones I have dealt with since this started. Doug says parts are on the way and I got a email confirming this but no tracking number so who knows. I have no idea about plastic parts being used on any of the Hawk saws and find it hard to believe they would use China. These are USA saws. Kevin can probably address it better. The only plastic part that I know of is the bottom blade clamp holder. They have used them for many years and yes they stretch out and at times crack and need replacing. I changed to a spring steel of metal many years ago after the first plastic clip stretched out. Very easy fix and surprise they did not address this yet.

Has been for quite awhile. I just used RBI so those may not know other name.

I do not have the magazine so have not seen the article but was it the same as you shown and done as an inlay project or did you modify this in a few ways. ??

Not getting into any comments here about RBI because last time I got my hand slapped here. Just wanted to let those know who may have an interest I got off the phone with Doug who I am guessing has taken over as a fireman(customer service) to put out some fires over there. Not sure if Raven Nondorf is still there or not . But got a load of excuses about my order and was asked if i still want it. As I told him he has me over the barrel nowhere else to get parts. So yes send it. So after 5 months almost to the day I should get my order. What this all means about parts or new saws orders I have no idea because he said there is still 3 guys in the shop and that is all. All I can say to those who are buying a new RBI saw or are buying a used one good luck and hope all works out well for you. Maybe some expediting will happen with a change in voice.

Thanks Dave. May have to take a run at this one of these days.

Fantastic Dave. Without question you are the best box here. Love your work. What angle do you cut these at and does it change with thickness or standard angle?? What blade are you using??

You would not be happy with that Proxon saw.

If you get stopped for a copyright reason just tell them you will not charge them for advertising fees and did not before either.

Sometimes you have to know when to say enough is enough and fold the hand of cards you were dealt. There are lemons in anything we buy. Happy Scrolling.

If they have the license and now you start making that pattern and now someone approaches you and tells you that you can not sell the project how does that make it right?? We take patterns from many sources and try keeping those records. When you say there is nothing grey about it you are kidding yourself. Then you need to stop scrolling all together because everything you cut has some sort of links back to a copyright infringement. You do not have to believe me and I am not going to argue with you. I am stating my point of view. I know military stuff has copyright implications because I have brought it up here way before you mentioned it. This topic comes up many times here and is usually spurred on by an article someone reads that states someone got caught doing something probably they did not even know they were violating any laws. Most of these things are innocent instances . This comes up alot in the pen turning world too. I will give you an example and you can tell me is it right or wrong. You buy a military watch that has the Navy insignia on it, you paid the copyright fee because somehow that is included in the price. Watch stops working and cost too much to fix. Now throw it away or being a pen maker repurpose it and use the dial and watch inner parts to make a pen blank cast in resin or a shaving brush or something else. Is it legal to sell??? You already paid for the item in which it was intended use and it has no more value to the average person but your talents can take it and continue another life for it just as if you found a stick on the road and made it into a pen blank. This stuff gets batted around many times on pen turning sites because many people do the same with Disney watches. I have yet to hear from a true copyright lawyer on the findings of things like this and until I do what gets said here and other sites is what people read and hear so to me GREY area. I will continue with military patterns I bought from reliable sources and yes 35 years doing shows and selling in highend stores. I have been at shows where the Disney people, Harley People College people and even VFW people have walked shows. I hope I enlightened one person too.

If you say so. Now go through all the vendors that sell military patterns and see if they have a license and if they do then what?? Not so black and white any more is it?? Same goes for those that make military pen blanks. To me all is Grey but who am I. I still make my military clocks and will till I give it up all together.

Yep now add the fact in there that you and I are the military. You will not solve this copyright stuff or get any straight answers Like I said GREY area. No matter weather you sell on line or in person. Selling on line just means more eyes on you and if those selling sites have rules above and beyond copyright laws that is their right and you need to obey. We all have stories of violators and I have seen my share of people asked to take down their displays from Disney, Harley, and college sports and just use of names and the list can go on. I seen military pens come into question. I am not going out of my way to violate what I know but if i do not I am not losing sleep over it. The longer you stay in the business the more you learn so good luck.

No Kevin gave you the answer That is what they are. It was an experimental saw and now with that new RBI company you will never get parts for it. Maybe some Dewalt or Pegas parts may work who knows. Or if you are handy you maybe able to do some workarounds. Will not tell you to buy or not. But there are better options.

Just use a smaller size blade. No need to change speeds. The only time I change speeds is when I scroll metals. Even plastics I leave alone. It is all in the proper blade used. I have scrolled 1/32" wood. Puzzle blades are good for that.

If this is a new saw I would not take it apart, not touch it just get it back to the dealer and ask for either a new saw or a back up while they work on this one. Still under warrenty. Now if this is a used saw then say that here and maybe someone will come up with some help. Make an identifying mark on the saw somewhere that you can see that this is your saw when you get it back. I do this all the time when I have any tool repaired. too many shady things happen in the world.

There you go Kevin has the answer with a photo too. Never knew they went that way.

Before they started making the Hawk line of saws which has a 16" , they made saws called Falcon, Eagle, and Condor (bird names) and maybe this is one of those saws. I have no old photos of those saws but maybe you could call them and or do some searching under those names. They were 16" saws. Are you sure it is an RBI saw? The newer ones are #216-3 here is a older Eagle saw https://www.shoppok.com/mansfield/Scroll-Saw-RBI-Model-216----150,41,145556,image_large.htm Here is an older RBI with the motor mounted under the saw but is a much larger motor which they first started using. https://www.equip-bid.com/auction/2007/item/2156

Even BB plywood will cup definitely. Alot has to do with the glue they use too. When scrolled you release alot of the internal pressure so many times woods that have cupped can be used for scroll work so do not be too quick in discarding.

The problem with your logic you can apply this to each and every person that has ever made an item or has done any type of work for someone else. Every piece you make and or give away or sell can have those same effects so when you get into bed with the business end you better have the insurance to back you up. Something to think about. When is the responsibility ever on the other guy. You are right about one thing we are a sue happy world. But Happy Scrolling.

grey area and untill you become a lawyer then you will have the answer!!!!!!!!!! I take all I read here and on other sites with a grain of salt. Talk to a lawyer that does those kind of cases.

Grey area.