5000 Of These How Would You Make Them?

[kmmcrafts]

I have a job if I want to tackle it. Probably pass but thought I’d ask what sort of set up you would do to produce these? If I can find an efficient quick way to make them I might take the job. Was told most likely get more business from it too. 

They are cut to 8” long then 1-1/4 high at the point of the cutout 1-1/2 inch in from each end where the notch is cut out. 

[JimErn]

I would

1. cut to length

2. make a jig to hold the 8" piece at a 45* angle

3. set the blade height, and cut the line, flip cut the other line

Edited May 1, 2019 by JimErn

[koehler788]

i would cut to length, Clamp as many as you can together with a bar clamp. either use a circular saw or rig a safe fence up on the table saw cut 10 - 20 at a time or more. 

that's my thought  

[new2woodwrk]

5000?

I would pass myself

But if you really want the pain of making that many - I would build a jig and use my table saw.  Actually I think you may need at a minimum 2  jigs, unless you don't have a sled.

One jig for the angles and one for the 1 1/2x 1 1/4 cut

Cut a bunch to size (which is easy with a sled and a stop) - let's say you cut 100 at a time

Next, use the angle jig to cut the 2 angles

Next, use the 2nd jig to out the 1 1/2 x 1 1/4 angles

Rinse and repeat

Then again 5000 is way too many to cut by hand for me - IMO this needs to be a mass production line cut

Best of luck with it

[OCtoolguy]

42 minutes ago, JimErn said:

I would

1. cut to length

2. make a jig to hold the 8" piece at a 45* angle

3. set the blade height, and cut the line, flip cut the other line

I would do the exact same thing Jim but I would clamp a bunch of them together sort of like stack cutting and run them through as many at a time as would fit the jig.

 

[JimErn]

3 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

I would do the exact same thing Jim but I would clamp a bunch of them together sort of like stack cutting and run them through as many at a time as would fit the jig.

 

Yea I thought of that when I was off on another page, great minds

[WayneMahler]

I agree with Jim but stack cutting the angles. The thing with something like this is you tend too get bored and that can lead to accidents. Another way would be cut to length mark the angles and cut on a band saw . Not quite as dangerous if you get distracted or bored. 

[OCtoolguy]

40 minutes ago, WayneMahler said:

I agree with Jim but stack cutting the angles. The thing with something like this is you tend too get bored and that can lead to accidents. Another way would be cut to length mark the angles and cut on a band saw . Not quite as dangerous if you get distracted or bored. 

Actually, I think what I'd do is get hold of the high school shop teacher and propose a project for the kids. Have each class compete with other classes to see who could cut them out the fastest. The winners get a pizza party.

[teachnlearn]

Did some factory work and they automate as much as possible, along with safety guards?  May want to see if a machinist can take two, three four saws combined to cut the whole thing in one operation. If you start doing this like a home shop you're going to bury yourself in multiple handlings. 5000 x 2 or x 3 or x 4 and your boredom or multiple handlings is going to drift the cuts and many very well cut something off.  Factories have guards, double switches for people to hit both to clear their hands and lasers as safeties to keep peoples hands from getting cut off. Even if you broke it down to 100 people contracted out they all have 50 of these with multiple cuts. Your project is a large overstep for any home shop. I spent a bit of my life designing for different industries and there was a whole team designing and reviewing safety operations of the machine being designed. Think real, real hard on this, even if you get some production setup, the wrong design is going to maim or kill you. Heck of a time to experiment alone in a shop. RJF

[Scrappile]

I wouldn't make them.   My life is too short to spend the amount of time it would take me to do something that boring....  well maybe if they gave me $10 ea. in advance.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Scrappile

[orangeman]

3 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

I have a job if I want to tackle it. Probably pass but thought I’d ask what sort of set up you would do to produce these? If I can find an efficient quick way to make them I might take the job. Was told most likely get more business from it too. 

They are cut to 8” long then 1-1/4 high at the point of the cutout 1-1/2 inch in from each end where the notch is cut out. 

Who would want 5,000?

What is it used for?

bb

[Woodmaster1]

I would pay someone else to cut them and double the charge and sale them to your client. You could divide it into three pieces and domino them together. You could also setup a jig on the bandsaw and cut them by making one cut flip it over and make the second cut this might be the easiest method.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Woodmaster1

[Dave Monk]

17 minutes ago, Woodmaster1 said:

I would pay someone else to cut them and double the charge and sale them to your client. You could divide it into three pieces and domino them together. You could also setup a jig on the bandsaw and cut them by making one cut flip it over and make the second cut this might be the easiest method.

Totally agree........If I could make good money I would find a way to get it done.

[Rockytime]

Thinking of all that work has me exhausted! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ 

[kmmcrafts]

My brother that owns the sawmill has a broker person that gives him work, typically for skids and pallets etc.. but this one my brother just isn't set up to do a rinky dink job like this and doesn't have the time to fuss with it.. He told the broker that I might be interested in the work.. 

The 5000 pieces would be $13,000 per order if I understood my brother correctly..  and is likely to become a regular thing.. possible every 4-6 weeks.. not really a contract just a per order deal so if I do it once and hate it.. I can quit.. so it's basically a per order contract type thing.. But with the right jig setup.. doing a couple hundred a day might not be too bad.. I'd have to deliver them to a place about 60 miles away.. and I'd have to build a crate or some sort of deal to stack them up in.. My brother said he'd rig up a box for me to put them in if I wanted to do it.. Just not sure it's worth it.. 

 

[kmmcrafts]

5 minutes ago, Rockytime said:

Thinking of all that work has me exhausted! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ 

Me too.. but I can't sleep because I keep thinking about it.. if I should do it or not.. and how to best do it if I do do it, 

[Scrappile]

Do you have a good table saw?  I would not take that on with a contractor saw, I would have to have good table saw with power.  You will wear out a cheapie and your are going to use up blades...

Edited May 2, 2019 by Scrappile

[teachnlearn]

1 hour ago, Woodmaster1 said:

I would pay someone else to cut them and double the charge and sale them to your client. You could divide it into three pieces and domino them together. You could also setup a jig on the bandsaw and cut them by making one cut flip it over and make the second cut this might be the easiest method.

Each operation you suggest is handling a piece once. Dividing or cutting in three,, 2 operations,, flipping 1 operation, or 5000 flips,  joining  2 pieces, glue 2 pieces 2 operations, clamp 2 pieces 2 operations. Now a quick conservative calc 5000 pieces x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 =40,000 times a piece is handled + the 5000 flips and possibly another one or two operations to clamp that which is a conservative 45,000 times to handle these pieces.  Factories us air and hydraulics and relays and software to do these operations so many times a second.  Its easy to take your time in a home shop and put a project together, its another in high volume to do it repeatedly without messing up the project or yourself. How many projects have anyone had that everything needed a bit of correction, now recorrect a 5000 oops or correct it anywhere along the 45000 times.. RJF

[teachnlearn]

27 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

My brother that owns the sawmill has a broker person that gives him work, typically for skids and pallets etc.. but this one my brother just isn't set up to do a rinky dink job like this and doesn't have the time to fuss with it.. He told the broker that I might be interested in the work.. 

The 5000 pieces would be $13,000 per order if I understood my brother correctly..  and is likely to become a regular thing.. possible every 4-6 weeks.. not really a contract just a per order deal so if I do it once and hate it.. I can quit.. so it's basically a per order contract type thing.. But with the right jig setup.. doing a couple hundred a day might not be too bad.. I'd have to deliver them to a place about 60 miles away.. and I'd have to build a crate or some sort of deal to stack them up in.. My brother said he'd rig up a box for me to put them in if I wanted to do it.. Just not sure it's worth it.. 

 

Contact a mechanical engineer. With the right design and machines, you may come up with a home machine to crack these out so many an hour, with a software developer down the line this could be automated with a compressor and a microcomputer running. I assume they will want a min per week, month. Check it again your time and investment. RJF

[teachnlearn]

MAYBE A POSSIBLE, hydraulic press operation. Set wood strip in the clamp, activate press with sharpened shears to angle cut and cutoff in one operation. With multiple sets of dies and a long strip of wood, these may be duplicated in one operational cut. It's going to be a small machining operation so double check with a mechanical engineer or really really good machinist, watch for the safety. If designed right your small machine may be able to convert to similar operations for other projects. RJF

By the way, get a PE for the engineer, also a possibility of a heavy electric motor and gearing for the press, but it's going to depend on force, hp and electric available. RJF

Edited May 2, 2019 by teachnlearn

[CharleyL]

 

These are just some suggestions -

It's the same cuts cuts from both ends, so if the stock was the correct thickness and width, I would set up a stop and gang cut multiple pieces to length at a time on the table saw. Then gang cut from the first end to make the first of the two angled cuts for the center notch, followed by the same process to cut the same angle from the opposite end. This would complete the center notch. Then I would do a similar setup to cut the angle on the first end and then reverse the pieces to cut the opposite end. All of this should be done by gang cutting, paying close attention to keeping the pieces aligned with each other. You will need to carefully set stops and fence positions for each cut and cut all 5000 plus before changing any settings for the next step. You will need a good table saw with a good sized table, so you can gang cut a bunch at a time. I might use some fixtures to make it easy to position and clamp a bunch together so they could be well aligned with each other and stay that way through the whole process, but I don't think any complex fixtures would be needed, but likely a whole bunch of clamps. Just a good table saw, like a Unisaw, a Powermatic, or a big Saw Stop and an accurate fence is all that you should need. A good sled might help though. You should probably plan on replacing the saw blade after each 5,000 too. Maybe get the one removed re-sharpened before using it again.

Will you be buying the material or will it be provided? What kind of wood is it? If possible, get it in the correct width and thickness to save steps. Plan on about 5% waste, but I doubt that you will have that much as long as the stock is clear and the correct dimensions. What about knots? Will they be acceptable in the final product? Will the material need to be cut to chop out the knotted pieces? If not clear and the correct thickness and width you may not make any money on this job and will need a whole lot more material.

If you decide to continue making these, I would look into automating the process with multiple saws, conveyor line, etc. so it would minimize the labor involved. Robotics would be another way to minimize labor, but all of this would depend on some long term commitments from the customer.

I spent much of my working career designing high speed automated manufacturing machinery. This would be a fun project for me, but I'm getting too old to tackle it now.

Charley

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by CharleyL

[teachnlearn]

12 minutes ago, CharleyL said:

 

These are just some suggestions -

It's the same cuts cuts from both ends, so if the stock was the correct thickness and width, I would set up a stop and gang cut multiple pieces to length at a time on the table saw. Then gang cut from the first end to make the first of the two angled cuts for the center notch, followed by the same process to cut the same angle from the opposite end. This would complete the center notch. Then I would do a similar setup to cut the angle on the first end and then reverse the pieces to cut the opposite end. All of this should be done by gang cutting, paying close attention to keeping the pieces aligned with each other. You will need to carefully set stops and fence positions for each cut and cut all 5000 plus before changing any settings for the next step. You will need a good table saw with a good sized table, so you can gang cut a bunch at a time. I might use some fixtures to make it easy to position and clamp a bunch together so they could be well aligned with each other and stay that way through the whole process, but I don't think any complex fixtures would be needed, but likely a whole bunch of clamps. Just a good table saw, like a Unisaw, a Powermatic, or a big Saw Stop and an accurate fence is all that you should need. A good sled might help though. You should probably plan on replacing the saw blade after each 5,000 too. Maybe get the one removed re-sharpened before using it again.

Will you be buying the material or will it be provided? What kind of wood is it? If possible, get it in the correct width and thickness to save steps. Plan on about 5% waste, but I doubt that you will have that much as long as the stock is clear and the correct dimensions. What about knots? Will they be acceptable in the final product? Will the material need to be cut to chop out the knotted pieces? If not clear and the correct thickness and width you may not make any money on this job and will need a whole lot more material.

If you decide to continue making these, I would look into automating the process with multiple saws, conveyor line, etc. so it would minimize the labor involved. Robotics would be another way to minimize labor, but all of this would depend on some long term commitments from the customer.

I spent much of my working career designing high speed automated manufacturing machinery. This would be a fun project for me, but I'm getting too old to tackle it now.

Charley

 

2

In your design, how many times is he handling the same wood, shifting, clamping, reseting, moving to stops? RJF

[kmmcrafts]

 

6 minutes ago, CharleyL said:

 

These are just some suggestions -

It's the same cuts cuts from both ends, so if the stock was the correct thickness and width, I would set up a stop and gang cut multiple pieces to length at a time on the table saw. Then gang cut from the first end to make the first of the two angled cuts for the center notch, followed by the same process to cut the same angle from the opposite end. This would complete the center notch. Then I would do a similar setup to cut the angle on the first end and then reverse the pieces to cut the opposite end. All of this should be done by gang cutting, paying close attention to keeping the pieces aligned with each other. You will need to carefully set stops and fence positions for each cut and cut all 5000 plus before changing any settings for the next step. You will need a good table saw with a good sized table, so you can gang cut a bunch at a time. I might use some fixtures to make it easy to position and clamp a bunch together so they could be well aligned with each other and stay that way through the whole process, but I don't think any complex fixtures would be needed, but likely a whole bunch of clamps. Just a good table saw, like a Unisaw, a Powermatic, or a big Saw Stop and an accurate fence is all that you should need. A good sled might help though. You should probably plan on replacing the saw blade after each 5,000 too. Maybe get the one removed re-sharpened before using it again.

Will you be buying the material or will it be provided? What kind of wood is it? If possible, get it in the correct width and thickness to save steps. Plan on about 5% waste, but I doubt that you will have that much as long as the stock is clear and the correct dimensions. What about knots? Will they be acceptable in the final product? Will the material need to be cut to chop out the knotted pieces? If not clear and the correct thickness and width you may not make any money on this job and will need a whole lot more material.

Charley

 

 I buy the wood.. It's just common Pine 1 x 4 boards... While I don't know for sure about the knots.. but this is made to hold round tubing in place.. so i don't really think it has to be made with real close tolerances.. I'm sure they'll fuss if it were 1/8" off or something but we're not talking thousandths of an in stuff, LOL These broker guys deal with pallets and shipping type things..I believe it's for some type of tubing cradle thing to keep tubing from rolling around... But I don't know that for a fact.. I'll have to get more info about it... I was just asking for ideas on how to best cut it..

 

[flarud]

Find 4999 friends with saws.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

You could not pay me enough. I would be bored out of my mind and as someone said repetition like that can lead to danger especially on power  saws. Set the cnc up and have at it. Jigs would be needed for sure. You can do on tablesaw or bandsaw. To start with can you buy the wood in the exact thickness and depth?? If not then you are milling more times and each time you have to handle makes the price go up. If you have to rip boards to get height then that is alot of wear on a blade. But if you can get a wood that has those right dimensions then it is a case of setting up a stop block on the tablesaw and cutting lengths.  Now you set the blade to the angle needed to make one side of the Vee. I am guessing 45 degrees. You make a sled for the tablesaw that can have a stop block and you set the height of the blade. Make one cut one way and flip and make second cut. The cuts should intersect equally and the same distance from the end. So there would be a minimum of 3 cuts per piece. You can also make a sled for a bandsaw and do them basically the same way on a bandsaw except they are laying down and not standing on edge as you would need to do on a tablesaw. You could not lay them flat and cut on a tablesaw with out getting overcuts at the Vee intersection. 

The third picture is the type of jig you need to make for tablesaw. Just need the back fence to be high enough to support that wood and to protect the fingers. You set the blade to angle needed. As I said place a stop on back fence and just keep flipping pieces. 

 

Have to say when I make these baskets I get bored very quickly cutting these pieces. 85 in small baskets and 125 in large ones. I have to do these in stages because I have to mill the lumber to right thickness and sizes before I can cut to length. Even then I cut a few hundred at a time and call it a day.