SHIPPING

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I thought we could get a topic going here that deals with shipping and shipping only so please no deviations of topic. This can be used as a source for others in the future. Kevin would be a big player here and probably many others that ship their work around the world. If we can break down the nuts and bolts of shipping from packing and what size boxes to use and how to prepare to the use of Priority mail over boxing it with your own materials and sending parcel post. What is the cheapest and safest ways and why?? What are the differences??  What are the pitfalls for sending either way?? How to calculate on your own what it would cost and if you can list exact web sites to reference. When is one way more efficient than the other??  What factors come into play when shipping such as weight, box sizes, and of course locals.??  Now we all know rates keep going up and it is getting more and more expensive to ship so this may be a good time to highlight these things. We need to charge shipping so we try to keep reasonable for both parties. Thanks for taking the time.

[kmmcrafts]

Wow.. That's some pretty broad questions that would take a long time to spell it all out JT.. 

I'll try to put together a little info but many of the questions really could be answered by looking on the shipping websites and searching for the rules and regulations.. Shipping regulations and prices etc. is about as difficult to explain as Taxes.. because it's really dependent on weight, size and where it's going.. not only in the USA but worldwide.. A lot of what I learned about shipping was just from doing it the last 22 years.. and yes..I loosing money on shipping cost at times.. Did that yesterday to be exact.. I sold a puzzle like Iggy makes.. going to Italy.. I charged $12 but actual cost is $23 So yeah even us in the business using shipping everyday still loose out sometimes and it's all because of updated pricing and different zones etc that they've changed..

I'll start off with a quick tip for now and come back to this topic when time is more permuting.. but if there is any specific questions I'd be happy to try to answer them..

Anyway.. First things first... Shipping box size is something you mentioned and maybe many folks don't know this.. This is mainly for U.S. mail but I think it's pretty much across all the shipping places. There must be a minimum of 1 inch space between the item and the box.. in order to collect shipping insurance if a item is damaged.. Now.. I've had bout 4-5 claims in the last 20 years.. I have yet had U.S. mail inspect my packaging before giving out the claim check.. but I have heard they do this and if they find it was poorly packaged.. they can and will reject your claim.. Just some food for thought to start off with.. Oh.. and it's a pretty wise idea to take picture of the box if you receive mail that the box is damaged on the outside.. take photos before opening and after especially if you find the item damaged.. take photos of how it was packaged and of the damaged items etc.. 

I'll try to touch base on some of the other questions and give out a few tips etc..     

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

First good tip right off the bat about photos and i think it is also a good idea to take a photo before you ship in case you are challenged on the other end. My brother just ran into some of this so It is fresh in my mind and thus thought we could put together something like a reference and yes I know all states are different but postal laws are basic except out of country. I gave him the info that I had from shipping items over the years but he found out quickly prices have gone up tremendously. There is no rush putting this together so anyone who wants to jump in and add to this it can be very helpful for many. I think we all have been bit by shipping costs at one time. 

[jerrye]

As far as packaging materials go, I sold those for a living for more than 15 years, so I can answer questions about them.

In fact, I'll go ahead and address a commonly misused product-bubble wrap. For protection of something by wrapping it in it, use 3/16" high bubble. 1/2" high bubble is commonly used for protection, but it isn't designed for that. It is designed for void fill. The reason 1/2" is commonly used is because it is cheaper than 3/16", and people don't know any better than to use it for protection.

Bubble wrap is abrasive when moved back and forth, so it should be wrapped with the bubble out, not inward toward your product.

Edited July 11, 2019 by jerrye

[JimErn]

I found this to be a nice overview of the three main shippers

https://mywifequitherjob.com/what-is-the-cheapest-shipping-option-usps-fedex-or-ups/

We ship using either flat rate (heavy items) or priority mail the rest of the time.  Why? pretty simple we get a discount using the built in ebay shipping.  Yes I have compared the ebay rate against the etsy rate for the same item, ebay wins, and is not even close to using a USPS account directly.  In fact when she sells on etsy, or get an order from a facebook posting, she uses ebay shipping to make the shipment.

And there is no charge for USPS pick up, the mail man does that.  He actually likes us shipping, I found out the more we ship the more secure his route is, the post office is often looking to combine routes or portions of them to conserve on fuel.

All that said, we do not ship overseas.  Too many bad experiences.

[kmmcrafts]

I recently started selling on eBay again and noticed the shipping seemed cheaper than I figured it'd be... Amazon it also cheaper than etsy and the others.. but I think eBay may have Amazon beat of shipping prices..

Okay back to shipping.. tips

Many people do not know that shipping big and heavy items can be done outside of the what I call "The Big Three" ( U.S Mail, UPS, and Fed Ex.. probably could ad DHL on there too but that makes 4 LOL ) ..  larger items can be shipped through your local ( if you have a local and the recipient also has one near by ) Greyhound bus will ship large items that many of the others won't touch.. or not for a good price anyway.. Also... Fastenal will ship stuff as well.. very reasonable rates compared to the more common shippers.. Though they do not deliver to your door.. you have to go to the local greyhound and or Fastenal station / store and pick up.. Now I've never dealt with Fastenal so I cannot comment there.. But I had a large car part shipped  where it was too big for U.S. mail and UPS wanted like nearly $200.. Grey hound shipped it for like $45 Now.. this was 15 years ago too so I have no recent experience..      

 

[kmmcrafts]

A lot of people ship using the U.S. mails "Flat Rate Boxes "  U.S. mail ran all of those commercials " If it fits it ships " " I ship my pants " I ship my bed "   Funny they have never advertised that they also have free regular priority mail boxes.. 

The Flat Rate Box is only a good deal IF you're shipping something heavy.. But. because they advertised this Flat Rate Box as being a free box.. people think they're getting a bargain because the box was free many times people will run around town at the stores looking for a free box to ship their stuff in.. The post office made it easier buy doing the flat rate box.. No matter what you put in the box.. "If it fits it ships "..  They have several different sizes of flat rate boxes with different price ranges.. starting with the small box which is around $6-7.. and the larger box is around $14 now I think.. My prices might be off cause I don't use these.. I don't ship anything heavy enough to justify the cost..

An Example of these boxes.. My clocks ship out in a 12 x 12 x 5 box.. A large flat rate box is 12 x 12 x 5 Free box yay.. the cost of shipping as I said for the flat rate is $14.. The U.S. mail also gives free priority boxes.. they have a size 12 x 12 x 8... I cut the box down some.. and most every clock I sent so far cost $8 - 10.. ( Usually less than 2lb ).. I just saved my buyer $4 - 6 on shipping buy doing that.. actually I didn't know about these free priority boxes until 3 years ago.. and to save my customer on shipping I bought 12 x 12 x 4 boxes from Staples... I still do buy these boxes because I can't mail these priority boxes for International orders.. 

So in a nut shell... The priority flat rate box is not a good deal to ship in unless it's a heavy item that would cost more to ship than the flat rate price... No wonder why they advertised this box so much a few years ago...     

Edited July 14, 2019 by kmmcrafts

[kmmcrafts]

On 7/11/2019 at 6:51 AM, JimErn said:

I found this to be a nice overview of the three main shippers

https://mywifequitherjob.com/what-is-the-cheapest-shipping-option-usps-fedex-or-ups/

We ship using either flat rate (heavy items) or priority mail the rest of the time.  Why? pretty simple we get a discount using the built in ebay shipping.  Yes I have compared the ebay rate against the etsy rate for the same item, ebay wins, and is not even close to using a USPS account directly.  In fact when she sells on etsy, or get an order from a facebook posting, she uses ebay shipping to make the shipment.

And there is no charge for USPS pick up, the mail man does that.  He actually likes us shipping, I found out the more we ship the more secure his route is, the post office is often looking to combine routes or portions of them to conserve on fuel.

All that said, we do not ship overseas.  Too many bad experiences.

I just read the page you linked to.. seems to be right on from what I've discovered myself fro experience for 20+ years of online selling.. what got me a little was the comments about USPS packages being missing and shipped way later than scheduled.. Knock on wood.. I've not ever had any issues with USPS in mist of the 20+ years... But I did have several issues with UPS when shipping car / tractor parts years ago.. 

You got me on the eBay shipping though.. I can't seem to find a way to ship an item that wasn't sold on eBay in the first place.. I haven't kept up with how eBay works as I stopped selling on there around 2008 ish.. ( before eBay and PayPal split ways ).. I have shipped through PayPal with their ship now page. But almost 90% of my items go first class mail and last I knew PayPal only offered priority mail.. 

Something else comes to mind just now while typing this.. Etsy labels for USPS Priority gives $100 insurance value.. PayPal is only $50 and I believe the last eBay order I had a few weeks back also said $50 but i may be wrong on that since just a few weeks ago was the first time I sold on eBay in a lot of years..LOL 

Anyway, kinda curious how you ship through eBay for a sale from a different venue.. 

 

[meflick]

Thanks a Kevin for taking the time to write up and share your knowledge and info, related to shipping.great info.

[Jim McDonald]

A large portion of my job is shipping and receiving, so I will be watching this topic develop.  Selling truck parts, sometimes I am shipping an o-ring and other times it might be a 60 pound brake rotor.

Thanks Kevin for the insights so far and to JT for starting this.

[kmmcrafts]

I hope the info I put out there benefits someone.. Issue with shipping or anything I guess.. but what works out to be a good deal today... may not be the case next week, month, year, etc etc..  the world changes fast.. internet change has boomed from the beginning and constantly changing.. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Just keep adding to this and let us decide what we can use. It would be nice if you put exact links to postal sites that you use for figuring prices and other info. Not just home sites. Give us examples of use too. Anyone else want o jump in here this is an open discussion and fact gathering and hopefully can be useful for some. 

Maybe explain also about shipping and protecting the product. Just more ideas. 

[kmmcrafts]

3 minutes ago, Jim McDonald said:

A large portion of my job is shipping and receiving, so I will be watching this topic develop.  Selling truck parts, sometimes I am shipping an o-ring and other times it might be a 60 pound brake rotor.

Thanks Kevin for the insights so far and to JT for starting this.

Heavy Items if they'll fit the large flat rate box has been the best deal from what I've found.. but as I've said in my previous post.. It's always changing.. I also know that the USPS at some point changed the rules on the flat rate box and i believe there is now a limit to weight.. Not sure what that limit is.. I don't ship much of anything more than 2lbs these days.. I use to sell lawn tractor parts for old tractors years ago.. Old John Deere and Wheel Horse collectors paid big money for most anything... Wheel weights was a big seller and probably still is.. I use to buy whole tractors just to grab the weights off it to sell , LOL  50-75 pound weights would bring $250-300 + scrap metal places around here use to save them out for me and I pay by the scrap weight price.. at the time.. about $5 per weight.. Use to be able to put two weights in the large flat rate box and at the time flat rate box was $12 

Light stuff 16oz or less.. first class mail is cheapest.. but does take 5-7 days.. that said.. it's usually faster than that except during the holidays.. First class and priority are about the same speed most of the time unless the mail is busy.. then priority gets put on the mail truck first.. if still room in the truck then first class fills the rest of the truck.. 

International orders through U.S  first class. mail can ship up to I think 3 pounds...  but first class in the USA only 16oz.. I believe.. 

it's kinda hard to separate the cost and the rules from a non business to me having a business account.. The rules change when you sell on a venue.. Use to be first class limit was 13oz.. and maybe still is? but shipping through ebay, etsy, and amazon they go to 16oz.. and shipping through these companies also offers reduced prices.. so when someone ask me how much it cost.. my answer is sometimes maybe both right and wrong, LOL depending where you pay for your shipping from.. It cost a lot more to go directly to the post office instead of printing the labels at home..  

[kmmcrafts]

You ask for links.. here is one for all the free shipping supplies you can get from the USPS mail... 

https://store.usps.com/store/results/free-shipping-supplies/shipping-supplies/_/N-alnx4jZ7d0v8v?_requestid=413623

Now, you have to really read what you're getting.. because Flat Rate boxes are free.. but the shipping cost is just that " flat rate " whether it's 1 oz or 50 pounds.. They really aren't cost effective until you get around 2 pounds and up.. Flat Rate is priority 2-3 day delivery times.. 

There is also free regular ( non flat rate ) priority mail boxes on there too.. just have to make sure you're getting what you need.. 

Regional Rate boxes are free too.. they are a priority service as well.. just priced by what region your sending to.. and based on weight.. They use to be a great deal too and again.. depending on the region sometimes still is a great price.. I use them but with the last price hike they seem to cost more than buying my own boxes and mailing priority.. 

I don't have any experience with the international or express boxes.. For international orders I use my own boxes and ship first class.. 

By The Way... You order these boxes online and they'll mail them out to you.. they are 10 packs or 25 packs.. order ahead of time as sometimes the might be 2-3 weeks before you get them.. IF you only need a couple boxes.. you can go to your local post office and they usually have them on hand individually rather than a bundle..   

[kmmcrafts]

These boxes are what I use for the most part to ship my crafts in..

These boxes are nice for Portrait work.. I sell mine unframed so I just wrap the portrait in bubble wrap ( several layers )

https://store.usps.com/store/product/shipping-supplies/priority-mail-box---1095-P_O_1095

 

These are what I mail my clocks in.. most car clocks and wall clocks fit in this very well.. I do cut them down to about 4-6 inches instead of the 8 inch height. 

https://store.usps.com/store/product/shipping-supplies/priority-mail-box---1095-P_O_1095

 

These boxes I use for the smaller clocks with the rounded top ( Berry Basket designs ) and also some of my other items..

https://store.usps.com/store/product/shipping-supplies/priority-mail-regional-rate-box---a1-P_RRB_A1

 

I pretty much just use bubble mailers for ornaments and the puzzles.. but wrap them good with bubble wrap.. I buy my mailers from these guys.. and use to buy my bubble wrap from them too.. but they don't seem to have much for bubble wrap anymore.. I also buy my small bubble 3/16 wrap at Sams club.. now as they have the best deal..

https://www.ebay.com/str/screcyclingpros?_pgn=2

 

I buy my shipping labels as full sheet shipping labels.. as they double for printing patterns so i don't have to use the messy spray adhesive's unless the pattern is larger than one sheet and I have to piece it together then I just use regular paper..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-Shipping-Labels-Full-Sheet-8-5x11-Self-Adhesive-PACKZON/172818314778?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

I buy the rest of my boxes that the post office doesn't have the free one in the correct size.. and or for the international orders.. Also my packing peanuts.. I buy the huge bags as it's a better deal.. Order from Staples and they are usually here the next day or two..  

Edited July 17, 2019 by kmmcrafts

[JimErn]

9 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Anyway, kinda curious how you ship through eBay for a sale from a different venue.. 

 

Bring up a recent shipping label, edit, then re-rprint - it goes through as a new label

[JimErn]

@kmmcrafts

We use these guys for shipping materials

labels = https://www.onlinelabels.com/

bubble wrap and most everything else office related = https://www.bulkofficesupply.com/search.aspx?keyword=bubble+wrap

 

[kmmcrafts]

I should note that late last year bought a Thermal label printer.. so now the full sheet shipping labels are pretty much just for printing scroll saw patterns on..

This is the printer I bought.. But I paid way less than half that price.. with several rolls of label papers..

https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-2788/Dymo-Label-Printers-and-Labels/Dymo-Labelwriter-4XL-Printer?pricode=WA9125&gadtype=pla&id=H-2788&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjrvpBRC0ARIsAFrFuV80EwfF81NiGJPirzizQmsabLcWMkqRze5WQVcoOYwuxJ93tIQE5wIaAnL4EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

That sure was a time saver as before I would have to cut my labels out with scissors when I was using the full sheet labels.. Now it's just peel and stick.. The old way the labels would smear if they got wet at all so I always taped over the important parts too... no need for that anymore either.. amazing how much time this little printer saves.. especially when you are doing about 40-50 packages a day..during the holidays LOL  

[orangeman]

 

I took an order for 10 of my Nativity Scene/Advent Calendar Puzzles at a show in KY this past July. Told the customer it would be free shipping and no sales tax because it was out of state.

My website advertises free shipping for orders over $100.

The 10 puzzles cost $480. But the shipping to CALIFORNIA was $56.75 including insurance!

OUCH!!!

I may have to adjust my shipping fees in the future.

bb

[kmmcrafts]

9 hours ago, orangeman said:

 

I took an order for 10 of my Nativity Scene/Advent Calendar Puzzles at a show in KY this past July. Told the customer it would be free shipping and no sales tax because it was out of state.

My website advertises free shipping for orders over $100.

The 10 puzzles cost $480. But the shipping to CALIFORNIA was $56.75 including insurance!

OUCH!!!

I may have to adjust my shipping fees in the future.

bb

Guess you should re evaluate your shipping methods it sounds like..

I took a order for 10 of these crosses this summer... The 10 of these cost $780 plus $80 shipping.. Ship from Michigan to Hong Kong actual cost was $84 insurance and tracking included..

Last week I sold 200 custom made Christmas ornaments with company logo... Order come to $3194 + $80 shipping.. Shipping from Michigan to California was $75.09 for two large boxes.. Refund customer $5

What gets me is.. many times I can ship international cheaper than I can ship local.. shipping to CA seems to be the highest shipping.. Those crosses weigh 2 times what those ornaments weigh in at.. LOL 

I recently changed up my shipping for my etsy shop and website to free shipping.. bumped up my prices to cover the shipping cost.. will see how that works out.. Still charging shipping on Amazon and the few other places I sell at.. etsy been pushing the whole free shipping thing for a year now.. I finally comply sort of..    

Edited September 18, 2019 by kmmcrafts

[teachnlearn]

Was involved in business til 2017 and we shipped. At one point USPS had Weight, Zip to and from AND VOLUME. Left the actual cost depend on the sale of where its bought and what they bought which kept varying weight, zip, volume. Had to go to the USPS site to get a cost for each purchase. Made it impossible to prefigure a set cost for anything before the sale. This is general shipping through USPS and NOT Priority and Flat Rate. Hopefully this has been changed. RJF.

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, teachnlearn said:

Was involved in business til 2017 and we shipped. At one point USPS had Weight, Zip to and from AND VOLUME. Left the actual cost depend on the sale of where its bought and what they bought which kept varying weight, zip, volume. Had to go to the USPS site to get a cost for each purchase. Made it impossible to prefigure a set cost for anything before the sale. This is general shipping through USPS and NOT Priority and Flat Rate. Hopefully this has been changed. RJF.

I don't do it but most shippers now days have a zip code calculator than can be put into your website.. you just enter the weight and box size.. and it calculates the shipping based on your zip code and the buyers zip code.. so you don't even have to go through the issues of calculating it if it's that hard for one to figure out what to calculate.. It's what eBay, Etsy, and Amazon use.. you can either opt in or out of that.. the other websites I sell on don't offer that so I just calculate it myself for all sites..