Spiral blades ~ When To Use ?

[jimmyG]

I trimmed the Dirty Harry pattern down to a roughly 8-1/2 x 11 and this will be my first portrait cut.  It's a manageable size and doesn't look that difficult to cut with a standard blade.  I have some spiral blades but never practiced with them.  My question, do portraits look better using spiral or what's the need to ever use one?

[Bill WIlson]

The only time there is ever a "need" to use spirals is when the wood is too large to spin within the throat of the saw.  Otherwise, it's a tactical choice.  Patterns with lots of wavy lines and unstructured shapes to cut lend themselves well to spiral blades.  Straight, smooth lines, sharp corners and structured, more geometric shapes are best left to standard blades.

The pattern you posted would be a good one to use spirals on, IMHO.  You may want to practice first on a test piece, to get the hang of it.  There is a bit of a learning curve to spirals.  Some folks take to it right away, others struggle a bit, but it isn't hard, just different.  Good luck.

[Scrappile]

They use to be all I used.  But now I use them only for certain cases.  If I am scrolling something the needs vaining I will cut the vain with a straight blade then go back with a spiral to widen the kurf just enough so it is will defined.  It is quick, the spiral follows the kurf the straight blade made.  Then in the Jimi Hendricks portrait I used one to cut the hair line.  I could go along the hair line and very easily move the board to the side to cut all the little fuzzies of the hair line.  And the thin mustache I did with spiral, would have required a lot of spinning the board to cut with a straight blade, just small movement side to side, up and down with a spiral.  The outline of the guitar neck, I cut first with a straight blade then went back with a spiral to increase the kurf so it would show better.  I only use two spiral blades, the 3/0 Flying Dutchman New Spiral Blade and the 2/0 Pegas spiral. They are a great tool to have in you toolbox.  One more example, take this detailed Viking picture, I could not have done it with straight blades.  Imagine all the turning and spinning of the board to do all those many cuts.  I did the whole portrait with a 3/0 FD new spiral blade.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Scrappile

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, Scrappile said:

They use to be all I used.  But now I use the only for certain cases.  If I am scrolling something the needs vaining I will cut the vain with a straight blade then go back with a spiral to widen the kurf just enough so it is will defined.  It is quick, the spiral follows the kurf the straight blade made.  Then in the Jimi Hendricks portrait I used one to cut the hair line.  I could go along the hair line and very easily move the board to the side to cut all the little fuzzies of the hair line.  And the thin mustache I did with spiral, would have required a lot of spinning the board to cut with a straight blade, just small movement side to side, up and down with a spiral.  The outline of the guitar neck, I cut first with a straight blade then went back with a spiral to increase the kurf so it would show better.  I only use two spiral blades, the 3/0 Flying Dutchman New Spiral Blade and the 2/0 Pegas spiral. They are a great tool to have in you toolbox.  One more example, take this detailed Viking picture, I could not have done it with straight blades.  Imagine all the turning and spinning of the board to do all those many cuts.  I did the whole portrait with a 3/0 FD new spiral blade.

Very nice Paul. Thanks for the post.

[jimmyG]

I tried a few spirals and was not impressed. I'm sure they would be too aggressive to cut intricate areas like Clint's eyes... Thanks for the input...

[Scrappile]

I would probably not use spirals for any of that pattern.

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, jimmyG said:

I tried a few spirals and was not impressed. I'm sure they would be too aggressive to cut intricate areas like Clint's eyes... Thanks for the input...

As was stated above, there is a learning curve and some practice. So far, I've only tried it a couple of times and wasn't impressed but all I had to work with was number 5's that came in a sample pack. I'm going to order a gross of 2/0 Pegas and force myself to learn how to use them because I have a project that will go much easier if I don't have to be spinning and twirling the 16" long pieces. I haven't done much fretwork up to this point but it's time. 

[jimmyG]

10 hours ago, Scrappile said:

I would probably not use spirals for any of that pattern.

After more practice with spirals I believe you're correct.  Just starting with the eyes, it was tedious enough using a regular blade to not chop his pupils out and can't imagine using a spiral.  I see a lot of portraits cut with the fuzzy look and they look good and that's fine, but as a scroller for less than four months I would rather cut with a more surgical approach.  Maybe I'm a little cautious since only two items have gone the way of the burn barrel and they weren't really my fault and heck, I've never even broke a blade yet...  There's always that tiny feeling lurking in the background when starting something wondering, is this going to be my first screw up.

[Scrappile]

I use to be an uptight scroller, then someone here wrote, slow down, relax, drop you shoulders and have fun.  I thought about it and he was correct, when I scrolled I was so up tight that I actually had my shoulders raised up around my ears!  So I concentrated on relaxing.  Scrolling became much more fun.  That is why I scroll, I thoroughly enjoy it.. There is nothing bad about breaking blades. I buy them by the gross.  Breaking a blade does not mean you are doing anything wrong.  Could be the wood is pinching the blade, you are forcing the blade a little too much, bad blade,  etc.   Been scrolling as my main woodworking since around 2014. I break blades.  Nothing wrong with making a mistake, most mistakes can be fixed.  Moving off the line of the pattern is not a mistake,  just gently saw back to the line.  And yes I create fire wood sometimes. I have always done that no matter what kind of woodworking I am doing.  I probably us smaller blades than most on here.  The only time I use a blade as big as a #5 is when I do 3D cutting.  Most times I scroll with a #2.  Usually a Skiptooth with Pegas blades or a #1 or #2 with a Flying Dutchman Peguin Silver blade.  Enjoy yourself!

"Go ahead, ,make my day"

[Bill WIlson]

One might be surprised the precision that can be achieved with a 2/0 or 3/0 spiral blade.  I've cut very fine detail with a spiral and in certain situations I feel I have more control than I would with a straight blade.  Just like a straight blade, the sharper it is, the easier to cut fine detail.  No, the cut isn't as clean and smooth as a straight blade, but on portrait style patterns, there are usually few places where that is required.  I probably wouldn't tend to use spirals on anything thicker than 1/4" material.  The rougher cut doesn't show nearly as much.  Like someone said earlier, they're just another tool in the toolbox.  They work great for certain kinds of projects, but they are not for everything.

[FrankEV]

I'm an avid Spiral Blade user.  I cut mostly fine detailed many hole Art work in nom 1/8" thick ply.  Many of the patterns I do have many very small cut outs with a ;lot of them very close to each other.  Spirals allow me to make those cuts rather quickly, in one continuous motion, and I can change change direction with out the need to spin the work or back up.   As others have mentioned, you need to practice using spirals in order to be able to maintain good line following control.  They do not follow a line like a straign blade.   

I would use spirals to cut the pattern you posted, but even the area around the eyes is not very small, and most scrollers could use reg straight blades to do it.  Howerver, when the pattern that has 4 to 6 hundred holes, with many cut outs not much bigger that the blade itself, IMHO, spirals is the only way to go.  

Another advantage of spirals is, if you wander off the line a little (always trying to keep to the waste side of the line) it it easy to use the spiral blade like a file to shave the material up to the line.  

Many say spirals leave a rough cut.  That may be true in thick materials, but , again IMHO, when cutting 1/8 or 1/4 inch material the rough edge is not really visible and of realy no concern. 

I will say that I do use a regular straight blades if I need to cut long straight, or long smooth curved, lines.    

[Scrappile]

The only disadvantage I see to spirals is you can't cut a sharp inside corner, at least I can't.  They are round so a pointed inside cut will be round.  I have used spirals, and then gone back with a straight blade to make a pointed inside cut, where I thought it made a real difference.  Most people would not even notice it but I do.  I use to follow Charles Dearing (Wooden Visions).  HE has great patterns on his site.  He, at least back when I followed him, had never used a straight blade.  He used a #5 spiral.   Did beautiful work with.  Most of his pictures were large like 3' by 4' and larger.  So no real choice but spirals.  He did a video once on how to make a sharp inside cut with a spiral.  I watched it and practiced  and practiced but I could not do it.  Probably, I think because I use such small spirals and larger ones I assume have bigger teeth.  His videos are worth watching if they are still on YouTube.  Anyway the important thing is to do what you are comfortable with and works best for you.  I am very glad, that I know how to use spirals.  I was lucky that I started out with them.   I was fat dumb and happy, did not realize most people seem to think they are difficult.  I think is may be easier to go from using spiral and switching to flat than the other way around.  Enough said by me on this.  I know I am probably getting boring, but I have enjoyed the conversation, thanks for starting the thread.

[jimmyG]

Started Clint yesterday and worked a little on it this morning but my Sciatica made it impossible to keep at it...
My go to blade with 1/4" BB ply is a FD #3  15TPI 7R Ultra Reverse. Don't look too close at it...

[OCtoolguy]

JimmyG, here is a link to a Charles Dearing video and he explains a lot about spiral cutting. He uses a larger blade, #5, than I would use but it's what he likes. Anyway, my point is just to inform anybody who might be wanting to learn the basics of spiral blade usage.

 

[TAIrving]

Thanks for posting the link Ray @OCtoolguy.  Charles is a scroll saw guru.

One more thought regarding spiral blades:  beginners sometimes put side pressure on their scroll saw works, bad for spirals.  A spiral blade will cut to the side, so any sideways pressure will get one off-line.  

[JessL]

21 hours ago, FrankEV said:

I'm an avid Spiral Blade user.  I cut mostly fine detailed many hole Art work in nom 1/8" thick ply.  Many of the patterns I do have many very small cut outs with a ;lot of them very close to each other.  Spirals allow me to make those cuts rather quickly, in one continuous motion, and I can change change direction with out the need to spin the work or back up.   As others have mentioned, you need to practice using spirals in order to be able to maintain good line following control.  They do not follow a line like a straign blade.   

I would use spirals to cut the pattern you posted, but even the area around the eyes is not very small, and most scrollers could use reg straight blades to do it.  Howerver, when the pattern that has 4 to 6 hundred holes, with many cut outs not much bigger that the blade itself, IMHO, spirals is the only way to go.  

Another advantage of spirals is, if you wander off the line a little (always trying to keep to the waste side of the line) it it easy to use the spiral blade like a file to shave the material up to the line.  

Many say spirals leave a rough cut.  That may be true in thick materials, but , again IMHO, when cutting 1/8 or 1/4 inch material the rough edge is not really visible and of realy no concern. 

I will say that I do use a regular straight blades if I need to cut long straight, or long smooth curved, lines.    

This is pretty much "exactly" how I feel about the subject. Same with the straight blades, tend to use the smaller size.   Though I am still relatively new to scrolling.  

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I am in the hate to use spiral blades category. I grew up with flat blades and that is all I use. Now there was 2 cases I needed to use spiralson a mirror I was cutting for a client. They wanted 2 mirrors that I could not spin on my RBI 226 saw and no matter which way I attacked that piece I could not get full cuts. So had to resort to spirals and hated every  minute. I think it took me longer to cut  those areas out using spiral blades than the entire mirrors. But it was all I had to complete. I have them in the drawer but hope to never use them again. It does take a learning curve to use them well. Doing rough lines is easy but trying to do straight lines is not easy, at least for me. I will cut you the straightest line with a flat blade that you thought it was cut on a tablesaw but not a spiral blade. 

[jimmyG]

I hear ya...  I'm relatively new at scrolling and even though I can turn it into being a nerve racking experience, I am starting to chill out a bit as I gain more experience and confidence.  There are so many different avenues to venture off to in the world of scrolling and for someone with ADD and OCD keeping it simple is a must.  If I live long enough to master straight blades I'll be happy!

[Norm Fengstad]

Took a while but I use spirals more and more especially for portraits. sometimes I use a 1/8 mdf as a backer board to help reduce underside tear out.

[FrankEV]

2 hours ago, Norm Fengstad said:

... sometimes I use a 1/8 mdf as a backer board to help reduce underside tear out.

Since I use spirals most of the time for cutting nom 18" thick plywood art panels, I have gotten use to getting a lot of fuzzies on the back side.  Durring cutting I will frequently stop and use my sanding mop, or just a flat sponge sanding block, to remove the buildup. This helps keep the panel from sticking when sliding on the saw table.  After the cutting is complete, and as much fuzzies as possible have been removed by sanding, I use a small butane torch to burn off any that remain, expecially if the small tight cornes and such that the mop cannot reach.  This is a quick and easy too get rid of all the remaining fuzzies.  

Using a throwaway backer while cutting seems to be a waste of material to me.

  

Edited December 13, 2023 by FrankEV

[BadBob]

7 hours ago, FrankEV said:

Using a throwaway backer while cutting seems to be a waste of material to me.

I have a hard time with this too.

[Scrappile]

8 hours ago, FrankEV said:

Since I use spirals most of the time for cutting nom 18" thick plywood art panels, I have gotten use to getting a lot of fuzzies on the back side.  Durring cutting I will frequently stop and use my sanding mop, or just a flat sponge sanding block, to remove the buildup. This helps keep the panel from sticking when sliding on the saw table.  After the cutting is complete, and as much fuzzies as possible have been removed by sanding, I use a small butane torch to burn off any that remain, expecially if the small tight cornes and such that the mop cannot reach.  This is a quick and easy too get rid of all the remaining fuzzies.  

Using a throwaway backer while cutting seems to be a waste of material to me.

  

I recently cut a Hendricks portrait.. I had a request for 3, I stacked cut 4.  Figuring the bottom one would meed more clean up.  But with Mac Mops the clean up is not that difficult. Now I have an extra one I can give to someone some day..

[FrankEV]

10 hours ago, Scrappile said:

I recently cut a Hendricks portrait.. I had a request for 3, I stacked cut 4.  Figuring the bottom one would meed more clean up.  But with Mac Mops the clean up is not that difficult. Now I have an extra one I can give to someone some day..

Not quite the same as using a throwaway backer.

[crupiea]

I would only use a spiral blade if i somehow lost or broke all my other blades,  Even then I probably would not use one.  I really dont care for them. 

[Scrappile]

Just keep in mind.  I doubt if theres is any artist, painters that uses one paint brush for every painting.  I have a collection of blades as they have a collection of brushes, and I use most of them at one time or another.  When working on this BB King portrait.  I have used two sizes of spirals and 4 -6 diffent sizes/configuration of straight blades.  I think that not practicing and learning where and when to use spirals is just short changing yourself. But to each their own.  What ever works for you.  The face/eye wrinkles and mustache done with two different sizes of spirals,  the rest is various different sizes of straight blades. I have only used a straight blade bigger than a #5,  when doing 3D cuttings.