OCtoolguy Posted December 12, 2023 Report Share Posted December 12, 2023 I have had 2 occasions to use padauk and on both of them, I have had problems with what I'll call bleed from the sanding dust. I'm making a bowl with a combination of padauk, cherry veneer and hard maple. All went well until I sanded the inside and outside of the bowl to get it ready for finish. I blew it off really well with a compressor and then wiped it down. I did not see any sanding dust accumulation, but after shooting it with a first coat of Zinnser's shellac, I have many spots where it seems that the padauk has bled onto the maple. I'm trying to sand them out but it may be a fruitless attempt. So, I ask those of you more learned folks, how do you prevent this from happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Monk Posted December 12, 2023 Report Share Posted December 12, 2023 I'm thinking it might be the alcohol in the shellac that is causing the problem. Is the bleeding more noticeable in the maple end grain? I use a lot of padauk and bleeding is definitely a problem. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted December 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2023 It doesn't seem to be just the end grain. I ran into the same problem on another project and I was using padauk and poplar. What I ended up doing on that one was to put the whole project into a pan of warm water and softening the glue so I could take it all apart. I don't remember what I did after that but I reassembled it and re-sanded the whole thing and it came out sort of pinkish. My wife liked it so it is sitting on our kitchen counter with candy in it. I can't do that this time. I'm going to try sanding it out as best I can but not sure how it's going to come out. I'm going to contact Carole Rothman and see if she had the same problem. Dave Monk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted December 12, 2023 Report Share Posted December 12, 2023 That is a tough combination. My suggestion is to do a very very light spray from a distance greater than what you are use to and do this a couple times till you get some build up. Use dewaxed shellac. Next time before you glue anything up wipe the darker colored oily woods down with acetone. many people use card scrapers instead of sand paper when doing work like that. Also vac do not wipe dust and if sanding then use vac while sanding. You could try masking but if you have end grain to end grain that will be tough to stop cross contamination. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Fengstad Posted December 12, 2023 Report Share Posted December 12, 2023 Interesting topic and timely as I have a piece of padauk waiting to be used OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted December 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2023 3 hours ago, Norm Fengstad said: Interesting topic and timely as I have a piece of padauk waiting to be used It will be a long time before I use it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted December 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2023 12 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said: That is a tough combination. My suggestion is to do a very very light spray from a distance greater than what you are use to and do this a couple times till you get some build up. Use dewaxed shellac. Next time before you glue anything up wipe the darker colored oily woods down with acetone. many people use card scrapers instead of sand paper when doing work like that. Also vac do not wipe dust and if sanding then use vac while sanding. You could try masking but if you have end grain to end grain that will be tough to stop cross contamination. Thanks JT but this project would not be doable as you suggest. It had to be totally glued up before any cutting began. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted December 12, 2023 Report Share Posted December 12, 2023 Nice project Ray. But have to say then there are just some projects that do not work well with certain woods. But will say this many turners use that combination when doing segmented bowls and they have same problems but use the techniques I mentioned. Just saying. purple heart and maple is another tough combination. Pen turners run into this also many times and as I do i turn with sharp skew and never use sandpaper. We use CA glue as our top coat. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted December 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2023 4 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said: Nice project Ray. But have to say then there are just some projects that do not work well with certain woods. But will say this many turners use that combination when doing segmented bowls and they have same problems but use the techniques I mentioned. Just saying. purple heart and maple is another tough combination. Pen turners run into this also many times and as I do i turn with sharp skew and never use sandpaper. We use CA glue as our top coat. Thanks again, J.T. Knowing what I now know, I'll try to do things differently in the future. Next time around, I may try shooting the padauk with a very light coat of shellac and lightly sanding the areas that will have glue applied. Something on that order anyway. For now, I contacted Carole Rothman who gave me the pattern and asked her if she had the problem. She answered that "yes, I did and used denatured alcohol to remove the shellac and then sand out the problem areas". So, it's off to buy some denatured alcohol. It's probably illegal to own here in the "People's Republic of Orange County" but I'll keep my fingers crossed. I do have some 92% isopropyl alcohol so I might give that a try. From what I read, there is not that much difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBob Posted December 13, 2023 Report Share Posted December 13, 2023 12 hours ago, OCtoolguy said: So, it's off to buy some denatured alcohol. It's probably illegal to own here in the "People's Republic of Orange County" but I'll keep my fingers crossed. Everclear will work and you can drink it if there is any left. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappile Posted December 13, 2023 Report Share Posted December 13, 2023 4 hours ago, BadBob said: Everclear will work and you can drink it if there is any left. And if doesn't work, but you drink some, You will not care nearly as much! BadBob, JTTHECLOCKMAN and OCtoolguy 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted December 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2023 8 hours ago, BadBob said: Everclear will work and you can drink it if there is any left. Don't tempt me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAIrving Posted December 14, 2023 Report Share Posted December 14, 2023 I seem to recall an article that said that alcohol causes the color in Paduak to dissolve and spread. And shellac has alcohol in it as the solvent. Don't use shellac on Paduak. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted December 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2023 4 hours ago, TAIrving said: I seem to recall an article that said that alcohol causes the color in Paduak to dissolve and spread. And shellac has alcohol in it as the solvent. Don't use shellac on Paduak. Yeah, there's nothing like finding out after the fact. I'm going to attempt a fix but I have the feeling it's headed for the burn barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBob Posted December 14, 2023 Report Share Posted December 14, 2023 42 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said: I'm going to attempt a fix but I have the feeling it's headed for the burn barrel. It's a design feature. No matter how bad you think it is, someone will like it. danny and OCtoolguy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted December 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2023 1 hour ago, BadBob said: It's a design feature. No matter how bad you think it is, someone will like it. If it can't pass my scrutiny, nobody will ever see it. BadBob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted January 30 Author Report Share Posted January 30 Well, I finally decided to try to save this project. I sanded all the clear laquer off and got most of the redness out of the maple. It'll never be what I intended. So now it looks like this. Should I leave it unfinished or shoot it with a satin clear laquer? All suggestions appreciated. I can't make up my mind what way to go. danny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjweb Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 Ray, I think it looks good the way it is, RJ OCtoolguy and danny 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preprius Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 Ray since it is valentines day coming , I think you should give it a nice pink tint with pink shellac. Sorry , I just had to use circumstance of the holiday. Or . . . Wow where did you get that pink maple But really it does look nice. The wood should be sealed so it does not expand. The bowl might be used to hold hot biscuits , with a moist towel. So I would seal the wood. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted January 31 Author Report Share Posted January 31 11 minutes ago, preprius said: Ray since it is valentines day coming , I think you should give it a nice pink tint with pink shellac. Sorry , I just had to use circumstance of the holiday. Or . . . Wow where did you get that pink maple But really it does look nice. The wood should be sealed so it does not expand. The bowl might be used to hold hot biscuits , with a moist towel. So I would seal the wood. Well, the wood is pretty well sealed even all the sanding but I was thinking of doing a seal coat of some kind. As for you attempt at humor, well I've decided you are a weird dude! LOL> I think it goes along with being an engineer. Thanks for the jest. preprius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 I would satin lacquer it for sure. Light coat at first and let dry and then go from there. You say it is sealed so you should not get any bleeding then. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 It looks great to me... if you do seal it up though, I would do a couple.. maybe more real light dusting coats to sort of seal it up before hitting it with a heavier coat. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAIrving Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 Really nice-looking bowl Ray. I too like the contrast between the Paduak and the Maple. But I never could make it work. If its not the sawdust getting into the maple, then its the pigment bleeding into it. Here's a test for anyone wanting to use Paduak. Get a scrap of Paduak and immerse it in alcohol for however long, then put it on a white rag or paper towel and watch for the bleed. Then try the test with shellac, then with lacquer or whatever you plan to use for the finish. Then refrain from using anything that causes bleeding. I still don't have a solution for sanding and sawdust getting into the maple. Maybe John T @JTTHECLOCKMAN's technique is the only answer. "use a sharp cutting tool and never use sandpaper." JTTHECLOCKMAN and OCtoolguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson River Rick Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 Hey Ray, that is one great looking bowl, anyone would be happy to have it. I also had a problem with paduak when I made my guitar stand, I recut the stand and use sapele which is not the same color, but it work good for me. Thanks for sharing your bowl cutting. Rick OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homebru Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 I'd say stain the whole thing. You'll be the only one that knows. homebru OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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