Advice needed regarding used scroll saws to consider.

[OCtoolguy]

@skyhawk7, I am on the West coast so this will not help you at all but I was surfing Marketplace today and came across a Hawk 220VS in very nice condition. The lady is asking $150 for it. I am so tempted to go check it out and probably bring it home but when I mentioned it to my wife, she very kindly asked me if I felt that I needed another saw. I'm going on 83 so I can see her logic but that doesn't stop me from wanting it. I'm not sure if it qualifies as an "Ultra" or not. Not sure what that means but it seems to have all the most current upgrades. The square blade holders, the up-front tension lever and variable speed. The serial number was 28XXX. What else would the be? @KMMcrafts?

 

[Skyhawk7]

2 hours ago, OCtoolguy said:

@skyhawk7, I am on the West coast so this will not help you at all but I was surfing Marketplace today and came across a Hawk 220VS in very nice condition. The lady is asking $150 for it. I am so tempted to go check it out and probably bring it home but when I mentioned it to my wife, she very kindly asked me if I felt that I needed another saw. I'm going on 83 so I can see her logic but that doesn't stop me from wanting it. I'm not sure if it qualifies as an "Ultra" or not. Not sure what that means but it seems to have all the most current upgrades. The square blade holders, the up-front tension lever and variable speed. The serial number was 28XXX. What else would the be? @KMMcrafts?

 

 

Funny you should mention your discussion with your wife regarding the new saw.  I just had a new saw talk with my wife over dinner this evening.  I am older, too, and I'm not sure how much longer I'll be able to pursue my woodworking hobby.  For now I'm healthy and doing well.  But I just lost a friend two days ago... it occurred to me tonight that I'm probably not going to need a saw that will last a bunch of years because I'm not going to last that long .   I'd sure like to have a better saw, though.  She is a kind soul and asked if I had the room for it in my workshop.  I do have the room.  She said to go ahead and buy it, then.  I do listen to her because she's usually right about stuff.  LOL, someday I'll share about us being a young married couple, and I was cutting down a very large tree & she had said it looked like it might land on our home... I learned that day, the hard way, that I need to listen to her.  She is the wise one, and I'm the crazy idea guy.  We do balance each other out well, though.

[rjweb]

Dave, yes go ahead and buy it, you never know when your number is called, enjoy life while you can, RJ

[Scrappile]

Better to enjoy what time you have left scrolling  than fussing with a saw you are not happy with.     Where I live there are several Hawks and Hegners for sale.  Within a couple hundred miles.  A few months ago I purchased a Hawk Ultra 226VS for $275.  I wish I could find a Hegner owner somewhat close to me, that would like to trade.  I have found the Hawk is just not a good fit for me.  Great saw, but I like my Hegner much more. But having two or more saws is a good thing. To each his/her own. 

[kmmcrafts]

20 hours ago, OCtoolguy said:

@skyhawk7, I am on the West coast so this will not help you at all but I was surfing Marketplace today and came across a Hawk 220VS in very nice condition. The lady is asking $150 for it. I am so tempted to go check it out and probably bring it home but when I mentioned it to my wife, she very kindly asked me if I felt that I needed another saw. I'm going on 83 so I can see her logic but that doesn't stop me from wanting it. I'm not sure if it qualifies as an "Ultra" or not. Not sure what that means but it seems to have all the most current upgrades. The square blade holders, the up-front tension lever and variable speed. The serial number was 28XXX. What else would the be? @KMMcrafts?

 

If it has the more squared style lower blade chuck/clamp then it's a Ultra or newer saw.. which are good saws for the most part.. The G4 and BM series saws have square type clamps too but they're slightly different and quite difficult to tell.. The thumb screws are smaller on the ultra while the newer models I think are larger and are 1/4 20 thread? Not sure the size on the ultra style.. the body of the clamp is also very slightly different.. just enough to not work in each model.. 

The G4 and newer saws the lower arm goes through the angle adjustment mechanism where the ultra is behind the angle plate so on the Ultra saws you have to reach around behind the angle adjuster to access the blade holder.. the newer saws it's right there in your lap almost LOL.. so is all the sawdust.. another win for the Ultra is that the sawdust will pile up on top of the saw stand behind the angle mechanism while the new saw is in your lap or on the floor. 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Scrappile said:

Better to enjoy what time you have left scrolling  than fussing with a saw you are not happy with.     Where I live there are several Hawks and Hegners for sale.  Within a couple hundred miles.  A few months ago I purchased a Hawk Ultra 226VS for $275.  I wish I could find a Hegner owner somewhat close to me, that would like to trade.  I have found the Hawk is just not a good fit for me.  Great saw, but I like my Hegner much more. But having two or more saws is a good thing. To each his/her own. 

Yes, having several saws has advantages if you have the space for them.. IF I were to do a lot of angle cutting I would not use a Hawk or Hegner.. I'd look at Pegas as they have the best angle mechanism and the saw tilts instead of the saw table... My Excalibur is also great for angle cuts and is very similar to the Pegas.. I just think Pegas went above and beyond with their angle mechanism..

My complaint on the Hegner is not a huge deal but I just hate the very small table they have.. I've not used mine a lot but it is a well built and solid saw to use.. I do love the small stand as it's narrow enough to sit at and sort of straddle the stand.. the Hawk stand is okay too but a bit wider and tall too.. need a tall chair and a block of wood to mount the foot switch too in order to reach it. The Excalibur stand is the worst of all of them.. no place to put your legs really.. The DeWalt stand was always comfortable too.. just the saw was always pretty aggressive cutting and hard to do fine detail cutting.  

[BadBob]

I despise saws with separate clamps that you have to remove from the saw to mount the blade. My first two had these, and changing the blade and retention was a pain. When the blade breaks, the clamps can go flying somewhere in the shop, and I would wind up crawling around on the floor looking for them. I wound up with multiple sets of clamps because, sometimes, when a blade broke and the clamp went flying, I couldn't find it right away. 

Contrast this with Pegas/Ecalibur style, where the clamps are fixed in place and changing a blade or moving to another hole takes seconds, and I never lose a clamp. In addition, I love the steel tables. 

[kmmcrafts]

16 minutes ago, BadBob said:

I despise saws with separate clamps that you have to remove from the saw to mount the blade. My first two had these, and changing the blade and retention was a pain. When the blade breaks, the clamps can go flying somewhere in the shop, and I would wind up crawling around on the floor looking for them. I wound up with ltiple sets of clamps because, sometimes, when a blade broke and the clamp went flying, I couldn't find it right away. 

Contrast this with Pegas/Ecalibur style, where the clamps are fixed in place and changing a blade or moving to another hole takes seconds, and I never lose a clamp. In addition, I love the steel tables. 

Everyone has their own preference and style of cutting they do.. I prefer to be able to have multiple blade sizes and configurations all loaded up and ready to use.. many projects I made would require veining that I would cut with a flat blade first and then go back over with a spiral blade.. I could easily swap blades on a single project without having to remove a blade from the clamps etc.. 

Properly set up and tuned saw shouldn't be tossing out the blade holder anyway.. if it is then there is a issue with the set-up of the saw or a faulty worn part.. The old Hawks with the round clamps was terrible with this and one reason people hated them.. but these saws are also 40 years old and well worn.. Nothing like the newer saws with the squared blade holders.. This is also something Hawk changed on the newer saws.. the blade chuck can just be left on the saw but can also be easily removed..  Can also top or bottom feed the blade on the newer saws.. I just keep them in the saw on the BM series.. One downside on this saw is it only came with the one set of blade holders so I can't have some all preloaded and ready like I can with the Ultra.. I have 10 extra holders that came with that saw.. IF I want extras for the BM series it's $20 each so I just have the one set.  

[BadBob]

After having two saws with loose blade clamps, I don't think I would take another one if it were free. 

[Skyhawk7]

I just ordered a new Hawk BM-20 scroll saw from the manufacturer, Bushton.  Thank you all for helping me by answering a lot of questions.  Between that and what I could read online, I believe the Hawk will be a good fit for my needs.  It sure sounds like there is no perfect scroll saw that's best for everyone - it's not a "one size fits all" type of thing.  I don't know how long it will be before the saw arrives, but when it does, I'll let you know my initial reaction.  LOL, and yes, I'll try to post a picture or two of some real work done on it.  

I opted for the 20-inch model instead of their larger saw.  Size-wise, the 16" Wen was able to do what I needed, so the 20-inch will be plenty big enough.  

[Scrappile]

51 minutes ago, Skyhawk7 said:

I just ordered a new Hawk BM-20 scroll saw from the manufacturer, Bushton.  Thank you all for helping me by answering a lot of questions.  Between that and what I could read online, I believe the Hawk will be a good fit for my needs.  It sure sounds like there is no perfect scroll saw that's best for everyone - it's not a "one size fits all" type of thing.  I don't know how long it will be before the saw arrives, but when it does, I'll let you know my initial reaction.  LOL, and yes, I'll try to post a picture or two of some real work done on it.  

I opted for the 20-inch model instead of their larger saw.  Size-wise, the 16" Wen was able to do what I needed, so the 20-inch will be plenty big enough.  

Congratulations.  I think you will be happy with it. I wish the used one I bought was a 20".  The 26" takes up too much room I and do not see me ever needing that big.   No,one saw does not fit all, nor does one brand/size blade.  I have approx, 30 different size/types of blades.  I have narrowed it down to two brands, I think, Pegas and Flying Dutchman.  But I have only tried about 3 other brands besides those two.

[preprius]

Great choice.

This village helped me find and get a used hawk 4 years ago. I am the 3rd owner and it has never gave me any issues.  I am not fighting entry level scrollsaw issues any more.

Me. Mark Eason

[OCtoolguy]

Be careful when you do the assembly on your new saw. I seem to recall that is very easy to get the legs mounted wrong and it effects the smooth operation of the saw. Kevin can chime in here. He and J.T. have lots of experience with putting them together. Both right and wrong.

 

[Skyhawk7]

8 hours ago, Scrappile said:

I have approx, 30 different size/types of blades.  I have narrowed it down to two brands, I think, Pegas and Flying Dutchman.  But I have only tried about 3 other brands besides those two.

95% of the time, I've been using the Pegas Modified Geometry blades with the two Wen saws I've owned so far.  They have performed well for me.  Maybe it's my imagination, but they sure seem to perform significantly better than other brands I've tried.  They're more expensive, but I thought that using cheap blades on my entry-level scroll saw was probably not the best way to go.  

Edited November 4, 2025 by Skyhawk7

[Skyhawk7]

One last thing I thought I'd share about buying the Hawk is how different the experience was from anything I've purchased in years.  It's like going back in time.  A nice lady, Hope, is the office manager at Bushton (the manufacturer of the Hawk saws), and she was the person who answered the phone and helped me.  I'm used to the big box store experience, but this is the exact opposite.  Hope answered questions, and she took the time to answer the questions I had.  She told me I was 5th in line for the new saw and four more were being built ahead of mine.  She said it would probably be near the end of the month when they had mine built and ready to ship to me.  She said there are 3 people who actually manufacture the Hawk saws - not 3 manufacturing sites, but three people.  Then she said they make them about a block and a half from her office... just down the street in this small town.  

The Hawk saws are made in a small town of a few hundred people in Bushton, Kansas (same name as the company that makes the Hawk saws).  The town of  Bushton is about 100 miles northeast of Dodge City (Dodge isn't a real big town either... around 25,000 people, I think).  Hope told me that all the parts used to build the Hawk saws are made in the USA, except for one bearing that is special due to its heat tolerance.  She said they're still looking for a USA bearing to replace it, but so far, it's the best they've found, so they continue to use that one part.  Anyway, Hope was super nice and helpful—and obviously very proud of the Hawk saws.  She (seriously) told me the saw I bought would still be going strong for my grandkids to use someday... and if there's anything I ever need, just ask.  When I hung up the phone, it felt like I'd just gone back in time to better days, before the world got so modern and crazy.  Pretty cool experience for sure.

Edited November 4, 2025 by Skyhawk7

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, Skyhawk7 said:

One last thing I thought I'd share about buying the Hawk is how different the experience was from anything I've purchased in years.  It's like going back in time.  A nice lady, Hope, is the office manager at Bushton (the manufacturer of the Hawk saws), and she was the person who answered the phone and helped me.  I'm used to the big box store experience, but this is the exact opposite.  Hope answered questions, and she took the time to answer the questions I had.  She told me I was 5th in line for the new saw and four more were being built ahead of mine.  She said it would probably be near the end of the month when they had mine built and ready to ship to me.  She said there are 3 people who actually manufacture the Hawk saws - not 3 manufacturing sites, but three people.  Then she said they make them about a block and a half from her office... just down the street in this small town.  

The Hawk saws are made in a small town of a few hundred people in Bushton, Kansas (same name as the company that makes the Hawk saws).  The town of  Bushton is about 100 miles northeast of Dodge City (Dodge isn't a real big town either... around 25,000 people, I think).  Hope told me that all the parts used to build the Hawk saws are made in the USA, except for one bearing that is special due to its heat tolerance.  She said they're still looking for a USA bearing to replace it, but so far, it's the best they've found, so they continue to use that one part.  Anyway, Hope was super nice and helpful—and obviously very proud of the Hawk saws.  She (seriously) told me the saw I bought would still be going strong for my grandkids to use someday... and if there's anything I ever need, just ask.  When I hung up the phone, it felt like I'd just gone back in time to better days, before the world got so modern and crazy.  Pretty cool experience for sure.

Same experience when I bought mine.. in fact Hope talked my ear off for 3 hours just about the saws, business, weather, camping  and a few custom saws they made for full time RV'ers that wanted Bushton to custom make a mount on the side of the RV to mount the saw on.. So they try to accommodate each customers needs within reason, LOL.. Do you suppose any other saw company would do something like that?   

When I ordered my saw one of their machines went down and they had a real hard time getting the part to fix their machine.. so I ended up waiting 4 months to get my saw.. lots of people were saying they'd cancel the order etc. etc. but you just don't get this type of business every day and running a small business myself.. I get it.. things happen out of your control and most people these days will just be impatient and badmouth them for years for something that was out of their control.. It's a small family run business and you just don't see that much anymore.. partly because everyone orders something and expect it to be delivered the next day.. if it isn't then they'll go to another place that will deliver the next day.... to me it's a sad day when people rather get some China made junk because it's quicker than support a small USA company..

[OCtoolguy]

So nice to hear this commentary on Bushton. We have truly become a society of instant gratification. I'm as guilty as anybody but at 82 I don't have much time to wait for stuff. I think that we will see more of this happening. Folks are waking up to what is important.

[Skyhawk7]

47 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said:

So nice to hear this commentary on Bushton. We have truly become a society of instant gratification. I'm as guilty as anybody but at 82 I don't have much time to wait for stuff. I think that we will see more of this happening. Folks are waking up to what is important.

I agree.  We also seem to be a throwaway society.  By that, I mean that so many things are just tossed into the garbage rather than being repaired.  My dad was amazing in that he seemed able to fix almost anything.  It seemed like things were made to be repaired, more than they are now.  LOL, I remember we had an ancient black-and-white TV that he bought used for our first family TV.  We had that thing forever.  It would sometimes glitch out, and dad would get his tube-tester out, locate a bad tube and replace it - we'd be back to munching popcorn and watching Gunsmoke before the episode ended.  Good memories.

[Skyhawk7]

The Hawk BM-20 arrived yesterday from Bushton.  It surprised me how heavy it is.  It is around 100 pounds.  LOL, I'm older, and it took all my strength to unbox and lift it up once I had the legs attached.  The instructions said to have two people lift the thing, but I was like a kid at Christmas, and I wasn't going to wait.  Compared to my Wen 16, this thing is a heavy-duty tank.  Even the hardware I worked with, bolting it together, seemed super heavy-duty.  

The Hawk shows virtually no vibration.  Anyway, the saw was easy to set up because it has a really simple, straightforward design.  At least that's my initial impression.  I can see why replacement parts are said to be very reasonably priced, given the simple design.  Bushton services their saws, but it looks like you can replace a part yourself if ever needed. 

I mostly use Pegas MGT blades and put one in the saw, and blade changes are easy.  I like the tensioning system.  Super simple, fast, and easy.  I like the blade holders.  It just looks like it is built for heavy-duty use.  Industrial grade.  I can see why the older models are still around after 30-40 years. 

I sure had a fun day today, just getting used to the new saw.  I liked how the table is smoother to move wood on.  Much smoother than the Wen.  I'm making a couple of rocking horses, and most of the cutting is 1.5" Oak.  It will be interesting to see how it does with that.  One last thing.  I did have questions about the saw, and I called Bushton.  The same knowledgeable lady, Hope, answered the phone.  LOL, I'm so used to having to go through AI bots now, and trying to actually get a "human" that it startles me when Hope answers the phone there and I realize there is zero wait.  Anyway, she answered my questions and was super helpful (just a nice lady too).  

Just thought I'd post this follow-up.  I like the saw so far.  

Edited November 21, 2025 by Skyhawk7

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

4 minutes ago, Skyhawk7 said:

The Hawk BM-20 arrived yesterday from Bushton.  It surprised me how heavy it is.  It is around 100 pounds.  LOL, I'm older, and it took all my strength to unbox and lift it up once I had the legs attached.  The instructions said to have two people lift the thing, but I was like a kid at Christmas, and I wasn't going to wait.  Compared to my Wen 16, this thing is a heavy-duty tank.  Even the hardware I worked with, bolting it together, seemed super heavy-duty.  

The Hawk shows virtually no vibration.  Anyway, the saw was easy to set up because it has a really simple, straightforward design.  At least that's my initial impression.  I can see why replacement parts are said to be very reasonably priced, given the simple design.  Bushton services their saws, but it looks like you can replace a part yourself if ever needed. 

I mostly use Pegas MGT blades and put one in the saw, and blade changes are easy.  I like the tensioning system.  Super simple, fast, and easy.  I like the blade holders.  It just looks like it is built for heavy-duty use.  Industrial grade.  I can see why the older models are still around after 30-40 years. 

I sure had a fun day today, just getting used to the new saw.  I liked how the table is smoother to move wood on.  Much smoother than the Wen.  I'm making a couple of rocking horses, and most of the cutting is 1.5" Oak.  It will be interesting to see how it does with that.  One last thing.  I did have questions about the saw, and I called Bushton.  The same knowledgeable lady, Hope, answered the phone.  LOL, I'm so used to having to go through AI bots now, and trying to actually get a "human" that it startles me when Hope answers the phone there and I realize there is zero wait.  Anyway, she answered my questions and was super helpful (just a nice lady too).  

Just thought I'd post this follow-up.  I like the saw so far.  

One thing I caution you on is when setting up in the place you will eventually use it make sure the legs are splayed properly and the saw sits level on the floor and on a solid surface preferrably a concrete base. Do not put rubber mats under the legs. Never carry the saw by the saw. Always the base. make sure all bolts are locked down and secure. I am sure Kevin can give you a few more tips like oiling the cam over lever and things if he sees this posting. Not much else but to sit back an enjoy the new toy. You will not regret the purchase. Takes a little fiddling to get comfortable with blade changng and how to set the proper tension and inding that golden sawing speed. Every saw runs into harmonic inbalances that make the saw vibrate a little but tweak up or down and they go away. Enjoy and look forward to seeing some projects come off the saw.