hotshot

What about the bathroom? . . . . . . Just kidding. I'm pretty much helpless in these matters . . . I ran out of room three saws ago, but if an Eclipse came up for sale cheap, I'm not sure what I would do.

Scrapile, the link you posted is defiantly the G4, and there are certain things about that saw that I think are a definite strengths. When RBI was looking to improve their saw, they went to Cast Iron for the main supports. Notice that both sides are connected, so it is one solid piece. On the BM this two separate pieces, similar to the pre-G4s. I'm pretty sure that cast Iron was too expensive for Bushton to continue. Having nothing to do with functionality, but from an aesthetics point, look at the speed control knob. The BM reverted to the same one that was used on the Hawks prior to the G4. You are right about that being one beautiful saw. I had the chance to get a G4 years ago for dirt cheap, but I was new to the hobby and didn't understand what I was looking at. I've always thought about that deal I let slip away. But I've been fortunate to find some incredible deals since then. If you are within driving distance, you might make him a offer you can live with (contingent on testing out the saw). Lot of posts in this thread, so if you are lost: I believe the first link in Sams post in the pre-Bushton Hawk 226, the second in Sams post, the pre-Bushton Hawk 220, and the one in Scrappiles' post is most certainly a G4. -----Randy

Your right, I don't see the machine wedge "circle" in the top arm. I totally missed that. Good catch. I think the evidence definitely points to a Pre-Bushton model. I just can't understand why they would advertise it as a BM. I wonder if they didn't just go to the Bushton site to get more info for the saw, and mistakenly think the BM matched the model they had. If not, then they are very dishonest.

The first one listed for $850 in Sams first post.

Now that really is a deal

Just for clarification, this might be a 226, but I'm pretty sure it is not a BM. RBI never made this model saw, but notice the RB I stickers. The sticker Bushton puts on the saw for the Tension guide is wrong for the BM, but at least it has settings listed for the G4, but this one lists the 220/226. The yellow sticker on the top arm isn't on the current crop, or at least not mine. The tension know is also the older Hawk style (if this is a early model BM, perhaps they used old Hawk parts, but somehow I doubt it.) If this is really an early BM, I would find it incredibly interesting that they put RBI branding on it . . . just saying! With all the stickers they show, they didn't show the sticker with the Serial Number/Model. I would definitely suggest they post that as proof. If I'm right, they have grossly mis-labeled the saw and it is worth no where near $800.

I just happen to have that blade, and quite a few saws at my disposal to test the fit with, so I ran this blade across my collection of saws and found this: 788/EX: If you pull back in the set screw, it will fit, just barely. I would probably just grind the ends to be a bit more narrow. Hawk BM: It will easily fit in the Hawk BM bottom clamp, but the top clamp slot is too narrow. I have two bottom clamps for my Hawk and think I could use one of the two bottom clamps for the top (it will fit) , but I'm not sure how that would work in practice. On the Hegner, the regular clamps and the quick clamps will not hold that blade. Hegner has a specialty clamp for larger blades, but I don't have those clamps so I don't know it if would handle 1/16 or not. However, Advanced does have a more narrow blade (.032), but is probably over $50 after shipping. https://advanced-machinery.myshopify.com/products/diamond-scroll-saw-blades There is a variation of this blade called a slitting blade, that narrows in the middle for a more narrow kerf. I ordered the slitting blade but they sent the regular. SSWC had an article in an old mag that shows how to make a drip tank, and as luck would have it, that article is online. If you want to pursue this, if you promise to make the drip tank and try this medium out, I'll send you a blade free of charge. 1/16 is the same diameter used for the Gryphon saws, so you can readily find these blades on ebay, for example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-7-SLITTING-REPLACEMENT-BLADE-FOR-GRYPHON-OMNI-2-WIRE-SAW-3-PACK-/301891499203?epid=1460390545&hash=item464a22b4c3:g:3MMAAOSwh-1W3dke. Note that these are 7", so you would have to trim the ends, but they are a lot cheaper. You might also be able to grind the ends to be more narrow, and have an easier time getting them in the saws.

Don't know what the cause was, but I had a bearing totally go to crap in my Rikon bandsaw, with probably less than 7 hours use. With my more recent Hawk adventures, the bearings in the scroll saw arm were "gritty" and did not turn freely. I used WD-40, and that seemed to do wonders, so in that case, the bearing were probably ok, just had dust hindering their normal operation. There is a lot more abuse on the bearings that Kev and Rolf were dealing with.

I'm sure there is a way to delete this post, other than overwriting it with this dribble, but somehow I'm missing it.

I actually grew up on a farm in the middle of the Oklahoma panhandle. Drove a tractor before I drove a car. We fixed things ourselves because it was too expensive to call out the mechanic. And, as far as I know, there were not "mechanics" for plows, sprayers, homemade tools, and everything else many other things we used on the farm. But we bought good equipment, because we couldn't afford to be down during harvest, or other critical times. Last time I was home, I spend so much time (mostly on my back) with a stick welder, my shirt faded (no lie). We did a little repair work, but mostly welded something my dad thought up to make things easier on the farm. Brad, I know you love your saw, and I know the negative commentary is frustrating you. You have spent time and been a great help to me personally and I know you have tried to help Iggy as well, so you are definitely a positive force in the Hawk family. I think critical discussions about a Saw in terms of the Vendor/Design/Competitors/Weaknesses and Strengths add some perspective to the discussion. I think it is good to see the whole picture, and sometimes there are parts of the picture that are truly ugly. There is usually a balance where the positives and the negatives shine a light from all angles, and an accurate picture emerges. Perhaps we went too far down the critical road this time and threw the conversation off balance. I've been trying to be mindful of that, but perhaps I let the critical brush get away from me. Crazy thing is, apart from the alignment/tweaking process, I actually love the saw. Been spending more time on it lately, just enjoying some casual cutting. But, if anyone came to me for advise before buying the Hawk BM (and they have), I would feel like I was stabbing them in the back if I didn't mention my concerns about the saw along with all the positives. For giggles, I included a picture I took from back home on my last visit, followed by a picture from right outside of Bushton. Right outside of Bushton

I'm not convinced that the BM is an improvement over the G4. Some aspects may be improved, but not all. I read the ad copy of all the "improvements", and was excited to see these, but there are a few things that I can point to that are definitely not improved. This isn't to say the BM isn't good, I just don't know that the quality matches the production build of G4 in every aspect. I'm hoping someday, Rolf will end up with a BM so that he can live and breathe it a while. If he lived closer, I would loan him mine for a few months. I think it would behoove Bushton to buy a Hegner, an see how those machines are "locked" into their alignments. Again, not saying Hegner is better than a BM, but I think there is a definite advantage to the way the Hegners are locked into their alignment. On the Hegner, the base and primary chassis of saw are one solid piece with no room for movement, or bending and such (bending is possible on the Hawk table, and if that happens, alignment is hosed). There is no "loosening the bolts and letting the machine align itself." The Hegner starts with a very solid base, which has accurate taps that locks everything into their optimal position. I think the only slots are where the motor connects to that base, and I've never heard of anyone having to adjust that. There shouldn't be any voodoo required to set up a saw. Beyond the motor, no "slotted" holes for things to slip out of alignment. In contrast, on the BM, each side of the chases is independently bolted to a much thinner table, front of angle guide attaches to the table, and is slotted. Rear table attachment is slotted. Motor is slotted. Slots slots, everywhere slots. See, for me, If I was King at Bushton, my priority would be to ensure things to work optimally . . . . right out of the box, after all, the price charged should reflect the quality of the product delivered. (I suppose I feel frustration with how things went in Iggy World, and did lash out at Hawk a little, so for balance, BMs do cost considerably less than Hegner, they top feed, blade travel is minimal compared to EX/788s, table blows the doors off the Hegner in terms of size, aggression is adjustable if needed, Hawk Red is a really cool color, and etc and etc ) -----Randy

Well, I got the bearings switched out. After close inspection of the old arm bearings, I believe they were probably fine, but bearings are cheap, so I went ahead and changed them out. My harmonic point is really bad at the 7 to 7.5 range, but seems pretty tolerable outside of that. Grabbed a short 2by4 and started doing freehand puzzle cuts with a #5 Polar, but switched to a #3 Pegas to see how well it did on something that thick. The Pegas did better than expected, but probably too small for the puzzle boxes I do. I think I'm happy with my BM, and am going to quit tweaking it before I break something. I hope you find your rhythm with your saw as well. -----Randy

What are the things you did that seemed to have improved your situation? Thanks goodness I'm not having the same issue you are and mine runs decently outside the harmonic range, but that range falls right where I like to work. For wood, I like a little more aggression, but I'm a little iffy on the wisdom of increasing the blade angle to accomplish this. For now, I'm just pushing harder, and keeping the blade as perpendicular as I can. Got my replacement arm bearings in today, exact ones used by Bushton, so putting those in will be my next Hawk tweak. Even as virgin bearings, they are not as smooth turning as I would have hoped, but I don't know anything about bearings, so they may be fine. In any case, they are better than what is in the saw now, so we shall see. ---Randy

As far as heat goes, the more metal you remove, the less there is to dissipate the heat, so it really isn't an issues until most of the material is removed. I had more issues with that when I first started, but I suspect the CA glue is acting as a lubricant and the better pike blades also probably help. Now, when it gets too hot, I pause for few seconds to allow the heat to transfer to the table. Speed is kind of relative, when you cut one linear inch, that might be 5 or more inside cuts. So when you cut using high magnification, the pace does not feel that much different than cutting much larger pieces. I suspect I would be cutting a 5" project in wood in about the same time. Two nice thing about metal, it is consistent, so you never have to fight the grain, and there is no dust, so you can cut in the house (not on carpet), and with winter coming on, that is huge. I have my inside saw setup in the living room, so I am right there with my wife and kids so I can listen and partake in the normal everything conversations/life. Despite the audio in the videos below, the saw if fairly quiet, so it doesn't create a problem for TV/Games/Conversations. I get enough "me" time cutting my wood projects in the shop. I have posted these prior, but in case you missed them, here are a few videos so that you can get the feel of the pace of this kind of cutting: p.s. I have another new very very different kind of saw, specialized for a different kind of material. Once I get caught up on my coins, I'll try to break it out and try something that has probably never been seen on this forum before.

Dave, this time I used my inside saw, which is the Excalibur, which is continually a joy to use. I can run the EX saw full out without breaking the Jewelers blades, though I usually run it about at about 3/4. When I'm not in a hurry, I may try a few more coins on the Hawk which has less blade travel, which makes some aspects of coin cutting a little easier. However, to keep my blades intact, I have to keep the BM slower than I like to cut. -----Randy

I let too much time go without practicing the detailed stuff, so I cut a few simpler patterns to get my "feel" back, and then cut this. Kind of a tricky pattern, so only second time I've cut it. First time I cut this, it was by special request for a friend. This go around, I'll probably put this in the craft store to see if it sells. -----Randy

When I had my BM apart a few weeks ago, I didn't check anything out in the pitman arm. I'll just hope those are in good shape. However, I did check the bearings out (in the arms), they didn't feel right, not turning freely, but being a bit gritty. I oiled them and they seemed to loosen up a bit. But still, this didn't seem right, so today I ordered four new bearing to replace them all. The specific size bearings (for the arms) for this saw are only made by a couple of manufacturers. As far as I can tell, only bearings available in the size for the BM is the "Nice 6031/v4" and the ones Bushton sells which were the "General Bearing Corporation 4455-00" I was going to try the "Nice" brand, hoping they might be a little higher quantity, but my source was out of stock, so I went with the original GBC brand which were only $2.50 each, which is sort of concerning in of itself. I was hoping to find a double sealed bearing in this size, but no luck. The ball bearings are not exposed, but not what I would considered sealed either. I'm afraid dirt/dust can get inside and put me right back to my current state. So here is a question for you all, should I be trying to add grease/oil/lubricant to the bearings before putting them in? Not sure whatever was done originally was very effective. ------Randy

It is an interesting mystery about your blade breakage with the #5 and #7. Those are pretty stout blades. The top clamp has a top screw that should be a little loose to accommodate a little rotation, but other than that, I got nothing. If you eventually figure it out, ping me with the answer as I'm very curious about this. -----Randy

I have no idea what the alignment issues would be, but the blade breakage I might have an idea about. What size of blades do you use when you have the breakage on the Hegner? I only have those types of issues on the Hegner with very small blades, and I think that is the nature of that saw (upper arm motion at top of stroke is slowed, then pulled back down by the blade itself). When you reduce the speed of the Hegner, it reduces the stress on the blades during the change of direction at the top of the stroke. I've seen this on both my Hegner and my Hawk. The mechanics of the DW/EX style of saws independently drive each arm, and in my experience, they are easier on the blades (especially very small blades) at any speed. But with that capability, comes complexity, and apparently higher failure rates. I have a lot of miles on my EX, and it runs like new, but I say a quick prayer before every use :-). In order to protect my Ex and 788, I now only cut thick stuff on the Hegner and Hawk, and with reasonably sized blades, blade breakage isn't an issue.

Iggy, have you thought about branching out further, beyond puzzles? You have to find x number of people interested in puzzles, and you miss the x number of people that could care less, but would like inlay boxes, or something else. You are very good at your specialty, but with the same effort, and a wider net, maybe you could pull more buyers in with the same effort. Your ornaments sales might be a good indicator of this. Sell what sells. Just an idea ----Randy

So, actually, these guys have their hands in a little of everything, but this is one of their newest business endeavors: http://www.advancedautographics.com Maybe they could put a custom customer emblem on their saws :-) -----Randy

The setting you are talking about on the Hegner actually changes stroke length for cutting very thin wood. This is unique to Hegner, but not useful to most users. Unfortunately, it does not affect aggression.

On the vibration side of things, this may or may not be your issue, but there is what Bushton refers to as the "Harmonic" range, where you can expect vibration increases over that range. On my BM, it is around 5 and 6. It smooths out as I crank the speed on up. I stay clear of that zone.

Not saying I'm recommending this Hegner, but it is very very interesting: https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/d/hegner-polymax-3-scroll-saw/6308461284.html That saw looks pristine, as it is about $3350 new, so $750 for a pristine Polymax is a steal. This is the most expensive consumer scroll saw on the market. This one is an additional 1.5 hours away. These are built for production work, and are meant to handle the abuse of constant use. Speeds are changed by "rolling the belts" from pully to to pully which is interesting in terms of reliability, but maybe not so much for usability. I've heard some users of these saws say the speed changes via the belt are trivial. I would love to try one of these. Jim Finn has one, might have to drop by his house to give one a spin :-)

Welcome to the forum Travis. I'm also from TN (Manchester).