hotshot

These saws are very very expensive new, but I sometimes see these used in the $600s, but if the saw if in perfect condition, I might go $700s. Did you mean Multimax 22v. That v is for variable speed, and for me personally, I wouldn't consider it if it is not. I'm assuming that saw is already mounted to the stand? If the saw looks to be in good shape, I would not worry about the age. They have made very few changes to this saw over time, and every single part on that saw is available from Advanced Machinery. You can always see if he will take $600 as it never hurts to ask. Is this the saw you are looking at? https://toledo.craigslist.org/tls/d/hegner-multimax-22v-scroll-saw/6282652901.html If so, it is a 22v, comes on the stand, and at a glance, looks really good. If I bought this saw, I would purchase the QuickClamp to use as the upper clamp from Advanced, but other than that, it looks like it is ready to go. (I'm assuming it has the tool to tighten the bottom clamp, and if not, you would want to purchase that from Advanced as well). This looks to be a couple of hours from you, so you lucked out there. Saw hunting is fun, and I wish you the best as you consider your options.

I'm have a bunch of stuff I have to get out over the next few days, but nothing I haven't cut before. My stock at the Craft Store is getting low, and I need to start ramping up for Christmas.

If the vendors are telling the truth, the saws they sell were made in the same factory that built the EX saws. I believe them.

For those of you that like to research/dig, get a load of this . . . and checkout the combined weight of product shipped: http://www.tradesparq.com/Customs/88281585/Customs-Data-Precision-Glbal-Incorporation#sthash.RbSpAF30.dpbs Now, for that same manufacturer, notice where this one is headed . . . . . (adding screen shot of detail from yet another source, but still tracking that same Manufacturer via Physical Address) So, that Manufacturer led to both KMS and Seyco. Folks I think we know who the manufacturer is: Precision Global Corporation In Taiwan (address is: 2f No 1 Ln 225 Minquan Rd West Dist Tawain). I'm not a "subscriber" to these research sources, so they only let me see a few records, but I suspect if I did pay for more records, I believe I would find shipment information leading to Jet, Axminster, Carbatec, and Pegas.

I understand how getting burned by the Canadian Harbor Freight Equivalent might burn folks, but still, It doesn't make sense that the Tawain manufacturer would intentionally drop their standards to make a saw for King of lesser quality. King does not make that saw, they re-brand that saw. King's pricing for this saw isn't in line with the pricing of their other tools, right? I know, the Harbor freight junk scrollsaw is very inexpensive. Then finally, Woodcraft certainly isn't in the habit of selling Harbor Freight quality tools. I would be shocked if these saws are of lesser quality that the EXs this same manufacturer made before them, but you never know. ------Randy

Iggy, what is the thing/s with the Hawk that is not cutting it? I have some observations about the strengths and weaknesses of the saw, but was curious why it wasn't working for you. From what I can tell, looks like your puzzles would be fine on a 16", thus opening up the possibility of a lower cost King, and you might be able to pick one up for not much more than the DW. Might be worth it to give the EX style saws a shot. Only reason I might consider Seyco over King is the support model, but the brand plastered on the saw doesn't bother me. All these ( King/Seyco/Axminster/Carbatec/Pegas) are made by the same folks. Though Jet is a slightly different animal, I wouldn't surprise me if Jet was made in that same factory. But, if you get a year or so out of your Dewalts, you have some time to sit back and watch the market to see how things pan out. So . . . if you register this new saw, does the warranty period start over? If so, and you keep wearing them out, you might be able to ride that train for a long time. You are not the first person I've heard of that received a new saw after turning it in for warranty work. ----Randy

Rockytime, when you play the video, click on the "cc" right below the video and you will get the closed captioning. I checked the captions out for this video and they are surprisingly good.

There is starting to be enough of us BM owners to provide a decent support base if you have issues. The saw is close enough to G4 that those owners can provide support as well. Are you a top feeder or a bottom feeder? If you are a bottom feeder, you won't have much of a learning curve. If you are a top feeder, it will take a little more patience to get the hang of it. After I learned the "trick", top feeding became trivial as well. When you take to Bushton, after the saw is setup at their shop for optimal performance, have them take a thin magic marker and draw a thin line around the base (on the top of the table), and also on the bolts on the bottom. If anything moves in transit, this would make it easy to get everything back in the original location. Luckily, they did this on my saw, at least for the top base. -------Randy

Still lurking, looking for something interesting :-)

$400, wow. If you are close to that location, I think I might be camped out at their door. Usually you can get an idea of the amount of use of a EX by the scratches on the table, but the table on that one looks untouched . . . . but by the pics, that might be because it has an aux table. Call the guy, ask him how the saw is running/why he is selling it. He might even take $350. Anyway, any modern black EX without issues is easily worth that. ------Randy

Do not trust sites like best advisers. We have the U.S. counterpart to these kinds of sites (like scrollsawreviews.com) which are a joke. These folk don't know anything about scroll saws except what they read in other peoples reviews. Check out the scrollsaw reviews on this site, which will give you a much better idea. Only trust a scroller to review a scroll saw.

No injury, but smashed my finger a few time cutting thick wood and getting a finger between the upper clamp and the wood. I tend to stay close to the blade, and have been stabbed a few times (see pic) when a blade broke, but nothing serious.

Before I answer you question, let me try to give an explanation to the reason for the comment in the first place. On the Hegner/Hawk style saws, the motor drives the bottom arm, but not the top arm. So at the bottom of the stroke, when the arm changes direction and go back up, it is that tension rod in the back that stops the downward momentum, and then re-accellerates the top arm very very quickly going the opposite direction. Quite a bit of force on that tension rod I would think. At top speed, the Hawk stops that downward momentum and pulls that blade up 29 times/second. Not a big deal because that tension rod is strong and can handle it. However, what do you suppose slows that blade down as it reaches the top of the stroke, and pulls it back down? Along with the resistance to the the wood, the blade is responsible for the forces required to quickly bring that arm to a halt, then accelerate it back in the downward direction, 29 times per second. When the blade breaks, the arms fly up on these saws. This isn't a surprise to the manufactures. Under the section on "Jewelers Blades" in the Hawk manual, it says: "To cut metals using your Hawk Scroll Saw, you will need to slow the saw down and cut at a slower speed. " So, I have been able to use smaller blades on these saws, but I have to be easy on the blades by keeping the speed slow. Back to the question on blade sizes, see the chart below to see how the naming convention works on the smaller blades.

Saws are next to religious for some folks. I really could get by with one saw or perhaps a backup, but I like toys, especially scroll saws, so I have collected a few. I have Two Hegners, A Hawk, a Green EX21, a DW788, and and a cheap PCB370ss. I have tried and gave away a few others. I will give you what I think the biggest strength is for the better saws I have. 1. EX21 Mindlessly Easy Top feeder blade changes 2. Almost as Mindlessly Easy as the EX, except the arm won't stay up 3. Hegner: If you use 1/0 and larger blades, and bottom feed, you will probably not be able to wear this saw out. 4. Hawk: The BM26 cuts thicker and cuts larger pieces than any of my other saws.

I don't think King bought General unless something has changed very very recently. DMT Holding bought General a few years ago, then K&C AMERICA LLC (which is another holdings company) now own all the General trademarks, and presumably the company.

I'm glad to hear someone else that prefers the original EX design. I like some of what I saw in the New Seyco, but still, I really like the design of my EX. I could enjoy either saw, but it's better to have options, so I'm rooting for the rebrands of the EX design.

The Pegas blades are crazy aggressive. I'm used to having to push my way through thicker pieces, but these blades are pretty awesome. The Padauk does bleed, even when you sand two pieces that are glued together flush, you will get a little color on your light wood, but I don't worry about it. it is what it is. I suppose I could have put a little poly on the Maple before gluing them together. Padauk is so beautiful, it is my favorite wood.

I typically use the Hegner for Puzzleboxes, but, the Hawk BM series claims to go 2.5", and have a longer stroke, so I thought I would give the Hawk a try and max it out. Here I use Padauk glued to Maple, and am using the Pegas #3 from a batch Hawkeye graciously let me have to try out. The kerf on the Pegas is pretty freaking tight for staying true at 2.5", so this is a very very good test. I did have to switch out "Thumb Screws" to find one that wasn't oriented in the down position when tightened (or I wouldn't have had clearance). I love making these puzzle boxes, I'll post the completed box if I don't mess it up. ------Randy

Oh, I had looked at that map on your profile, thus the Oberlin reference :-). I bet the forum is just placing folks mid U.S. if they don't specify. 6.5 hours will be quite the drive. If you get a new saw that you get to QA yourself, I think that would be well worth it.

Dave, do you live in Oberlin? If so, a 3 hr drive will get you a face to face with Bushton. I would call Bushton to arrange a visit, and go down and see a BM for yourself. If you like what you see, you might be able to haul that same saw home. I would go with you, if I lived closer. If you do go, take some pictures. I think everyone would like to see what this little operation looks like. I need to get a video up showing my top feed process for the saw, which might make it easier for you if you were to test drive a BM. There is a little trick that makes feeding that bottom clamp trivial, but it really needs to be shown to be understood.

Yep, my intent was not to make excuses as much as explain the reality of their support experience. Better to go in knowing what to expect. On the Hegner, the body is cast, and everything pretty well locked in. On the Hawk, there are adjustments for the table in front, in back, on the motor, and where the frame attached to the stand. Wonder if they wouldn't be better off drilling/threading perfectly aligned holes that won't move.

For those that follow us into the Hawk family, I think it would be helpful to understand the support model. It's not great, or bad, but it is different. To me it feels like dealing with someone that has another full time job, or two. If you can reach them by phone (and you usually can within a few attempts/days), you are likely to talk to one of two ladies, both very nice, but one is much more knowledgeable (Nicole) than the other, so if you get the younger one, it will be pleasant, but maybe not productive. You might even get a call back from Nilus. An email might take a good while before it is answered. I have an email to Nilus asking if they would be willing to drill tap the clamps for the m6 x1, I think that was a couple of weeks back, so I'm taking that silence as a no :-) I suspect I won't hear back on that . . . . ever, but you never know. So all in all, I think I'm taking this away from my experience with them: These are seven good people that have multiple lines of business, including farming, making popcorn poppers, creating custom branded valve covers for the racing industry, making other woodworking tools, and etc. So, they are trying to juggle multiple businesses, and wearing different hats such as, the web guy is also a machinist, the Engineer is also an Owner, the lead support lady in a stay at home mom. Scroll saws are definately not their sole focus. They wear a lot of hats. I would not consider them "professional" in the same way you can always get hold of some inept college kid at Comcast, but with patience and time, you can carry on a conversation with them and hopefully troubleshoot your issues. If you are short of patience, Bushton isn't the company for you. Contrast that to Hegner and their U.S. support by Advanced. From my own experience, and general reputation, I get the sense that for that extra $1000, you get a saw that has very few adjustments and a lot less that actually goes wrong, which means their resources spend less time on the phone. You can always reach someone, and their support is also good. But, that saw cost more than my wife wedding ring, doesn't have top feeding ability, a ridiculously small table, much shorter arm than the Hawk (Mulitmax 22vs vs BM26), and more expensive parts. But, in turn . . . . it is pretty freaking worry/hassle free. Not saying I like Hawk better than Hegner, or vice versa, I am saying there is a give and take to either saw, especially in terms of cost and how they are supported. Hegner support is easy to contact and quick to respond, but if you want to "talk to the engineer", that guys speaks German and doesn't work for Advanced, and they haven't made any significant changes to that saw in 30 years or more. If you want to suggest an improvement for the Hawk, Bushton may or may not agree with your suggestion, but it will at least be heard. I still have some "challenges" with my setup, but I have a fleet of other saws, so I can afford to be patient as heck. I would loan Iggy one if he lived closer. I would say Iggy is learning a lot of patience as his volume is much closer to production cutting, and thus has a lot more riding on this saw than I do. Hopefully in the end, we both end up happy with our purchases.

I could use bronze sheet, and I may do that for somethings going forward. If I sell a coin that I've flattened, I give a brief explainaton letting them know the piece was a "coin." I think that adds some novelty. When I flatten the copper clad coins, you can still see the copper on the edges, so it is identifiable that way. I do prefer to go unflattened if the pattern will allow that.

Kevin, I should have had my credit card in place, but I didn't. Even on the EX which does not have the slot, I usually have the zero clearance card in place. The danger is not the long slot, but the big hole where the blade is (which is the same on any saw). Without support, if the blade "catches", it can bend thin metal right down into the hole . . . . which stinks. I was so excited to cut on a saw with very low blade travel, I forgot the card, until the end where I was sweating out the final thin remaining pieces. I lucked out.

Rolf, there a six bolts that hole the main body of the saw (toward the rear). The two rear most bolts were the ones that I think were not put in correctly. But there are still four holding tight, and the saw seems rigid, and as smooth as it's ever been. If this ever becomes a problem, I may be figuring out how to use helio coils. For now, things are starting to really come together, so I'll not worry about it unless it becomes an issue.