Stain first or glue up first

[jbrowning]

So I have my motorcycle racer finished and am now going to work on a flat base for it stand on. Do I glue those pieces together first before staining or do I stain first then glue them together?

I'm thinking glue together then finish.

Thank you

Jim

[kmmcrafts]

Glue bonds the best on bare wood.. That said.. I've seen many people glue backers that had been painted to fretwork and they claim they had no issues... But for the reason glue to bare wood works best is why i choose natural wood backers of contrasting colors.. ie.. oak cutting with walnut backer etc etc.. I'd like to take a cheaper painting route.. but don't want my customers stuck having to re-glue backers that come loose or fall apart.. LOL so I stick to the wood to wood method..

 

 

[Scrappile]

I agree, where possible glue bare wood together. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

As mentioned wood to wood works best when it is bare wood. But with that said. I never glue my bases on when I build clocks. I always screw them on and I do this because I have now have the ability to change the clock and save the base in case of breakage. More likely to break the fret work than the base but either can be redone and replaced easily. Been doing this for many years and had to replace a couple over that time. Never did like edge grain to flat grain for strength no matter what glue uded. Like a mechanical fastner. 

[dgman]

I would not stain that beautiful Walnut! Are you going to use Walnut for the base too? If so, I would glue them together first, then soak in a 50/50 mix of boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits. Wipe off the excess, then let dry for 24-48 hours. Then you can apply what ever topcoat you want. That Walnut will look so great with oil rather than stain!

[jbrowning]

5 minutes ago, dgman said:

I would not stain that beautiful Walnut! Are you going to use Walnut for the base too? If so, I would glue them together first, then soak in a 50/50 mix of boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits. Wipe off the excess, then let dry for 24-48 hours. Then you can apply what ever topcoat you want. That Walnut will look so great with oil rather than stain!

I am planning on using something like oak or red oak as the base. Whatever I use on the walnut and oak will be clear, so the grain and color of the natural woods will show up nicely.

[edward]

I never had a problem painting the backer first, then glue the front piece to the backer, I would find that painting after would be hard especially on smaller pieces, I use  mainly craft paint, and tite bond glue 3.  works for me.  edward

[trackman]

When I paint a backer I will use painters tape around the edges so it leaves a boarder of bear wood for the glue. Then I will use a roller to apply glue to the piece. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

The OP is not talking about gluing a backer on. He is talking about gluing the piece to a base for it to be able to stand up. If you are finishing with clear than glue before you finish. If you are staining the bike and clear the base then mask the bottom from stain and glue wood to wood. But again my choice is screws. 

[jbrowning]

So John, would I screw from the wooden base up into the bottom of the motorcycle?

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, jbrowning said:

So John, would I screw from the wooden base up into the bottom of the motorcycle?

That is how i used to do it.. Drill holes to avoid splitting the wood.. then to countersink the screws i used a bigger drill bit to drill so the screw head would be below the surface... I stopped using screws as the screws and holes in the wood weakened it clocks and I actually had a couple that broke right where the screws were... I started gluing them the last 2-3 years now and have not had one issue or complaint.. The down side to gluing them is.. it's pretty much permanent and if something happens to the base or the cutting.. the whole thing is trash  

[Rockytime]

Don't know that I should respond since I've never had to do this. But, what if one were to drill two 1/8" holes through the base and up into the object needing to be mounted. Glue 1/8" dowels into the base. Place glue on the base and dowels and slide onto the object. On the other hand, what do I know.

[Dan]

I agree with Dan (dgman), no stain, just glue or screw then apply clear finish. The contrast of walnut and oak look great. Of course, opinions are like... well, you know. 

[jerry1939]

I have been gluing fretwork onto spray painted backers for a good number of years, without having one come loose.  A good example would be Sue Mey type patterns. 
https://www.scrollsawartist.com/scroll-saw-patterns/religious-and-inspirational/#ty;pagination_contents;/scroll-saw-patterns/religious-and-inspirational/page-22/
My go to paint for this type is Rust-Oleum red metal primer.  It's a dull red.

If anyone tries this color, be aware that it scuffs easily.  After spraying a clear coat on the finished piece it is fine.

jerry

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

6 hours ago, jbrowning said:

So John, would I screw from the wooden base up into the bottom of the motorcycle?

Yes Jim. There is usually always a thick part of a pattern where you can do this. I have done this with all my clocks and never had one break except when dropped and then as I said easier fix. I use countersink drills for the size screws I use. I mainly use wood screws--#6 or #8 --3/4" to 1" long have worked well. When I make napkin holders I use dry wall screws. https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwM1gxMDAz/z/OiIAAOSwav5ashA0/$_35.JPG?set_id=880000500F  I drill the base using those bits and then use a smaller machine bit to drill the clock portion so that when screwing the screws in it does not crack the wood and is easier to screw in. Have to make sure you do not drill too deep so the bits pokes out. I center the top portion on the base and where the holes are in the base I make a witness mark on the clock. I make a center mark and drill one hole. I then place clock on base and screw it down. I center the clock on the base and then and only then drill the second hole. This ensures that the holes match up.  

 

Have no idea what Kevin is talking about weakening the clock. I have done this for many years and has worked well and have made a ton of clocks. I make clocks that may also have felt on the base so gluing the clock to the felt is a no go such as the gamblers clock I show here. 

The only clocks I could not screw down was the Queen Ann clocks(last photo). There I used dowels in the corners because I did not trust just glue to hold. The pieces were too thin and the grain was too many different directions. 

Edited May 23, 2018 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[jbrowning]

So, I'm guessing where the two marks on this picture would be the best place to screw them together? That would be roughly 1.25" thick including the base that will be added to it.

 

Thanks

Jim

Edited May 23, 2018 by jbrowning

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

26 minutes ago, jbrowning said:

So, I'm guessing where the two marks on this picture would be the best place to screw them together? That would be roughly 1.25" thick including the base that will be added to it.

 

Thanks

Jim

Yes that is where I would drill and use screws. Not sure how thick the bike is but that will determine size of screws. I make my clocks around 1/2" to 5/8" thick so I use either a #6 or #8 depending what I have at the time. If it is 3/8" thick you may want to drop to a #4 screw. One other trick after I drill holes and go to screw the screw in I always brush the screw on a bar of soap. It will lubricate the threads and make easier to screw in. I keep a bar of soap in shop always for this purpose. learned that one from my Dad. 

 

By the way nice cutting. Should look good when done.

Edited May 23, 2018 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[jbrowning]

Hi John, thank you very much. I'm pretty proud of this one. I'm really sweating it hoping I don't screw something up.

The base is 1/2" deep and the motorcycle is 3/4" thick.

[jerry1939]

15 hours ago, jbrowning said:

So, I'm guessing where the two marks on this picture would be the best place to screw them together? That would be roughly 1.25" thick including the base that will be added to it.

 

Thanks

Jim

I don't use many screws, but I keep a tube of lip balm in the workshop to coat the threads of the screw before screwing it in.  It's like night & day different.  Candle wax will do the same.

jerry

[Bill WIlson]

1 hour ago, jerry1939 said:

I don't use many screws, but I keep a tube of lip balm in the workshop to coat the threads of the screw before screwing it in.  It's like night & day different.  Candle wax will do the same.

jerry

I use a chunk of wax toilet bowl ring.

[OCtoolguy]

On 5/22/2018 at 6:48 PM, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Yes Jim. There is usually always a thick part of a pattern where you can do this. I have done this with all my clocks and never had one break except when dropped and then as I said easier fix. I use countersink drills for the size screws I use. I mainly use wood screws--#6 or #8 --3/4" to 1" long have worked well. When I make napkin holders I use dry wall screws. https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwM1gxMDAz/z/OiIAAOSwav5ashA0/$_35.JPG?set_id=880000500F  I drill the base using those bits and then use a smaller machine bit to drill the clock portion so that when screwing the screws in it does not crack the wood and is easier to screw in. Have to make sure you do not drill too deep so the bits pokes out. I center the top portion on the base and where the holes are in the base I make a witness mark on the clock. I make a center mark and drill one hole. I then place clock on base and screw it down. I center the clock on the base and then and only then drill the second hole. This ensures that the holes match up.  

 

Have no idea what Kevin is talking about weakening the clock. I have done this for many years and has worked well and have made a ton of clocks. I make clocks that may also have felt on the base so gluing the clock to the felt is a no go such as the gamblers clock I show here. 

The only clocks I could not screw down was the Queen Ann clocks(last photo). There I used dowels in the corners because I did not trust just glue to hold. The pieces were too thin and the grain was too many different directions. 

Very nice John T.

 

[OCtoolguy]

On 5/22/2018 at 7:53 PM, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Yes that is where I would drill and use screws. Not sure how thick the bike is but that will determine size of screws. I make my clocks around 1/2" to 5/8" thick so I use either a #6 or #8 depending what I have at the time. If it is 3/8" thick you may want to drop to a #4 screw. One other trick after I drill holes and go to screw the screw in I always brush the screw on a bar of soap. It will lubricate the threads and make easier to screw in. I keep a bar of soap in shop always for this purpose. learned that one from my Dad. 

 

By the way nice cutting. Should look good when done.

John T. I learned the same trick from my Dad but one time in another forum I mentioned using soap as a lube and some folks came back to me and said that soap corrodes the screws. Have you ever heard that? They all recommended using paraffin wax.

 

[Rockytime]

I remember making soap from lie. Perhaps that soap would corrode.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

4 hours ago, octoolguy said:

John T. I learned the same trick from my Dad but one time in another forum I mentioned using soap as a lube and some folks came back to me and said that soap corrodes the screws. Have you ever heard that? They all recommended using paraffin wax.

 

Never. My Dad taught that to me when we were building our dormers on our house many years ago. I had to screw the screws in for all the hinges on the doors. No battery operated tools back then. By hand. Use to walk around with a bar of ivory soap in my tool pouch. 

 

Sold the house 2 years ago after my Mom passed away and every door looked like it was brand new as the day we put them up over 50 years ago

Edited May 29, 2018 by JTTHECLOCKMAN