Compound cutting wood

[meflick]

1 hour ago, NC Scroller said:

I am Blessed to know and have worked with Charley.  I have never met a person who would go the extra mile to help anyone more then Charley.  He is a man of many talents. 

Lucky you  and Lucky us that he has gone the extra mile here to help anyone who sees it and is interested in compound cutting. Maybe one day I'll get the pleasure of meeting him - NC and East TN are not that far away! 

[Kragax]

I for one am grateful for his information and the time he took to help us out. 

[CharleyL]

Thanks everyone. I'm glad that I was able to help.

I'm here on Scroll Saw Village almost daily, usually in the AM, so if you try this and have problems, post your questions and I'll do my best to answer them. Pictures of your problem would probably also help. If you don't want your problems and pictures on here for everyone to see, send me a PM to me and I'll help privately.

In the pictures, notice how close I followed the pattern lines, either directly on the line or right next to it on the waste side of the line. This is very important when compound cutting, but with experience you will learn where this level of accuracy isn't quite as important, however it will be different with each pattern. For the reindeer, a slight deviation from the neck and back pattern lines toward the waste side of the line in either the face view or side view will not result in a failed cut, but more than two blade widths of offset will show in the final results. You also need to make smooth cuts with no back-ups and nice gradual curves or it will show as well,  Sudden changes in direction where a smooth gradual curve should be usually creates firewood, since it is near impossible to fix these after they are cut wrong.

Remember, these reindeer are too small to be able to do much sanding, so sanding off a mistake will be nearly impossible. Sometimes they get fuzzy legs - splinters, usually on the inside of their legs, especially in the softer woods. I usually use finger nail files, sometimes trimmed narrower with a pair of scissors, and use the fine grit side to kind of rub these fuzzies off of their legs but the rest of their bodies is usually smooth enough direct from the saw. It usually doesn't take actual sanding, but just bending the fuzzy back and forth a few times should break it off smooth with the leg. Cutting with a fine tooth blade  eliminates the need to sand their bodies almost completely. Again these tips apply to most any compound cutting that I've ever done and not just the reindeer. 

 

Charley

[meflick]

Thanks again Charley.  I pulled on of your info. off last night along with some of the other info. shared earlier in the thread by others and put it all in one document that I have saved on my computer.  Now, I hope to get a chance to go over it and give some compound cutting a try.  Have some more basic patterns to start with though.  Reindeer will have to wait a bit. 

[NC Scroller]

For those new to compound cutting wood choice is also critical.  Pine is a poor choice as your blade will fight to follow the grain.  Start out with poplar or basswood. 

[Kragax]

Isn't Basswood to soft and fibrous ? 

[scrollerpete]

I used every kind of wood for my mini bird houses, mostly pieces of scrap left over from other projects.

I glue them together to get the proper thickness and uses a bench sander to make sure they are square and you are all set.

I cut some with lot's of mix hard wood (takes longer to cut) but looks real nice when you apply the finish on them.

I like natural color of the wood, will post some pics later

[OCtoolguy]

On 11/20/2017 at 6:34 PM, meflick said:

Lucky you  and Lucky us that he has gone the extra mile here to help anyone who sees it and is interested in compound cutting. Maybe one day I'll get the pleasure of meeting him - NC and East TN are not that far away! 

Are you anywhere near Dandridge, Tn? We have very close friends who retired from So. Cal. to Dandridge and they have a small farm now. We visited them a couple of years back and I would love to live where they are.

 

Ray

 

[meflick]

9 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

Are you anywhere near Dandridge, Tn? We have very close friends who retired from So. Cal. to Dandridge and they have a small farm now. We visited them a couple of years back and I would love to live where they are.

 

Ray

 

I'm close, I'm in a suburb of the Knoxville, TN area.  Dandridge is just about 30 miles slightly north and east of Knoxville. Pretty much the "Foothills of the Smokey Mountains".  Maybe its time for you to come back and visit.

[OCtoolguy]

Believe me, if I could pry my wife loose from here, we'd be back there in a heartbeat. She says, if it gets cold, I ain't goin'. And if it gets hot, I ain't goin'. If only the rest of the country had the weather that we have here. I love it back there and it's on the top of my list of better places to live.

Ray

 

[scrollerpete]

Here is a short video of a sample of compound cut of mini bird houses, different kind of wood used and glued together for the proper thickness.

Larry you will see what is left after the cut is made.  Make sure that after you cut the first side you tape it together again prior of cutting the other side.

HPIM1450.AVI

[NC Scroller]

21 hours ago, Kragax said:

Isn't Basswood to soft and fibrous ? 

Yes it is soft but works well for most compound cutting.

[CharleyL]

Yes, start out with poplar or basswood as Scott ( NC Scroller) says. It's the soft/hard/soft transitions of strong grained wood that makes it difficult to cut. Poplar and Bass wood don't have these hard/soft transitions to deal with. Hard Maple is much harder wood and doesn't have the hard.soft grain to deal with, but it is more  expensive and dulls the scroll saw blades faster. Poplar is easier to find and cheaper. Bass Wood is difficult to find and not nearly as cheap as Poplar.

I frequently use pine for the larger reindeer, because I have a carpenter friend who saves me scraps, but  I  have to choose pieces with little to no visible strong grain lines ,The soft/hard/soft transitions as the blade cuts through the grain lines  deflect the blade.  but I also use poplar as it has no strong grain lines.  I try to carefully choose only the white poplar, since reindeer don't look very good in green or shades of gray. On my tiny 1" reindeer I only use hard maple, because softer woods usually result in in them falling apart before I can even finish cutting them. I've made a couple of 1/2" tall reindeer out of hard maple once, last year, but it took eight to get two and one of them wasn't that good. I need to come up with some better methods before trying these again.

Charley

[CharleyL]

Now I think I've given away all of my secrets to successful compound cutting. Isn't anyone even trying to do this? Come on, I want to see some pictures. It can be of reindeer or something else.  Compound cutting can be a whole new and rewarding challenge. Since I started, I haven't cut much else since then, and most people have never even seen anything compound cut on a scroll saw, so the demand for finding a unique gift at a craft show is  wide open for compound cut pieces and they should sell very well. I don't sell, and never have, but give my scroll saw work away as gifts. The reindeer are mostly given away During the Christmas Season to anyone who helps me in any way. Sales girls, clerks, cashiers, waitresses,  nurses, doctors, etc. People frequently try to buy these and I have to tell them that I don't sell, but give them as gifts. It's quite amazing how much they are liked and wanted.  

One day last year I was in my local Lowes and had some of the larger reindeer with me. I had given them to all of the women who  worked there last year and was offering one to a new woman Lowes employee, when I discovered that a line was forming behind her. Some wanted another and some were new Lowes employees. Since I try not to give someone more than one and since I only had 8 reindeer with me, I had to turn the ones away that had already received one. The demand is there for them and some of the ones who want to pay for them have offered up to $10 each for the larger 3 1/2" tall ones that only take me about 6 minutes to cut.  If I could have an unlimited supply and a waiting line of paying customers, I could conceivably make as much as $100 per hour making and selling only the large reindeer. I don't plan on selling any, so I won't be your competition, but here is a possible great source of income to add to your Christmas Season revenue. Once you learn to make the reindeer there are already many patterns available of compound cut patterns that you can make, and at least for a while, you will have something unique to sell with no competition. All it will take is a little effort to master the art of compound cutting with a quality scroll saw like a DeWalt 788 or better that's adjusted for a perfectly straight blade side to side, as well as front to back. My posts have given you everything that you need to know, even how to get the blade perfectly straight in your saw. All you will need to do is to try it.

Charley

 

[Scrappile]

Charley, I have not had time yet, been working on committed projects, but I fully intend to do it next year, fact thanks for reminding me so I can add it to my New Years Resolution list.  And thanks again for all the work you put in on writing how you do it. 

[Bill WIlson]

Just finished cutting 109 compound cut birdhouse ornaments out of cedar and African mahogany.  Sorry, no pics.  Not my first compound cut rodeo, but the most I've done at one time.  I don't sell either, just give 'em away.  I suspect they are going to go over big this year.

[meflick]

Hey @Bill WIlsonl, one of the first things i learned here in the village was the old saying "no pictures, didn't happen" 

@CharleyL don't give up on us yet. I for one appreciate you sharing all your secrets for successful compound cutting - I really want to give it a try soon. My hangups so far besides lacking time is I need to make the clamps to help hold them while cutting.  I had hoped to get to it last week, but other things happened and diverted me out of the shop.  When I get there, I will share photos.  For those who are interested in compound cutting patterns, Steve Good shared one of a birdhouse, bird and stand today on his blog.  It can be found here: http://scrollsawworkshop.blogspot.com/2017/12/compound-cut-bird-house-and-stand.html

[scrollerpete]

1 hour ago, meflick said:

Hey @Bill WIlsonl, one of the first things i learned here in the village was the old saying "no pictures, didn't happen" 

@CharleyL don't give up on us yet. I for one appreciate you sharing all your secrets for successful compound cutting - I really want to give it a try soon. My hangups so far besides lacking time is I need to make the clamps to help hold them while cutting.  I had hoped to get to it last week, but other things happened and diverted me out of the shop.  When I get there, I will share photos.  For those who are interested in compound cutting patterns, Steve Good shared one of a birdhouse, bird and stand today on his blog.  It can be found here: http://scrollsawworkshop.blogspot.com/2017/12/compound-cut-bird-house-and-stand.html

I never used a clamp I just cut them using my fingers a little tricky at the beginning but you get the hang of it pretty fast. The birds for the bird houses are not easy but you will manage I'm sure.

 

[OCtoolguy]

6 hours ago, CharleyL said:

Now I think I've given away all of my secrets to successful compound cutting. Isn't anyone even trying to do this? Come on, I want to see some pictures. It can be of reindeer or something else.  Compound cutting can be a whole new and rewarding challenge. Since I started, I haven't cut much else since then, and most people have never even seen anything compound cut on a scroll saw, so the demand for finding a unique gift at a craft show is  wide open for compound cut pieces and they should sell very well. I don't sell, and never have, but give my scroll saw work away as gifts. The reindeer are mostly given away During the Christmas Season to anyone who helps me in any way. Sales girls, clerks, cashiers, waitresses,  nurses, doctors, etc. People frequently try to buy these and I have to tell them that I don't sell, but give them as gifts. It's quite amazing how much they are liked and wanted.  

One day last year I was in my local Lowes and had some of the larger reindeer with me. I had given them to all of the women who  worked there last year and was offering one to a new woman Lowes employee, when I discovered that a line was forming behind her. Some wanted another and some were new Lowes employees. Since I try not to give someone more than one and since I only had 8 reindeer with me, I had to turn the ones away that had already received one. The demand is there for them and some of the ones who want to pay for them have offered up to $10 each for the larger 3 1/2" tall ones that only take me about 6 minutes to cut.  If I could have an unlimited supply and a waiting line of paying customers, I could conceivably make as much as $100 per hour making and selling only the large reindeer. I don't plan on selling any, so I won't be your competition, but here is a possible great source of income to add to your Christmas Season revenue. Once you learn to make the reindeer there are already many patterns available of compound cut patterns that you can make, and at least for a while, you will have something unique to sell with no competition. All it will take is a little effort to master the art of compound cutting with a quality scroll saw like a DeWalt 788 or better that's adjusted for a perfectly straight blade side to side, as well as front to back. My posts have given you everything that you need to know, even how to get the blade perfectly straight in your saw. All you will need to do is to try it.

Charley

 

Charley, when you say "perfectly" straight side to side and front to back, how perfect are you saying? On my 788 I have tried to get the front to back movement "perfect" but after elongating the holes and trying to move the armature forward/backward I can't seem to get any improvement and if anything, it gets worse. I'm probably talking about 1/8" total over the entire up/down movement. I can't seem to improve on that. Any suggestions?

Ray

 

[Rob]

12 hours ago, CharleyL said:

Now I think I've given away all of my secrets to successful compound cutting. Isn't anyone even trying to do this? Come on, I want to see some pictures. It can be of reindeer or something else.  Compound cutting can be a whole new and rewarding challenge. Since I started, I haven't cut much else since then, and most people have never even seen anything compound cut on a scroll saw, so the demand for finding a unique gift at a craft show is  wide open for compound cut pieces and they should sell very well. I don't sell, and never have, but give my scroll saw work away as gifts. The reindeer are mostly given away During the Christmas Season to anyone who helps me in any way. Sales girls, clerks, cashiers, waitresses,  nurses, doctors, etc. People frequently try to buy these and I have to tell them that I don't sell, but give them as gifts. It's quite amazing how much they are liked and wanted.  

One day last year I was in my local Lowes and had some of the larger reindeer with me. I had given them to all of the women who  worked there last year and was offering one to a new woman Lowes employee, when I discovered that a line was forming behind her. Some wanted another and some were new Lowes employees. Since I try not to give someone more than one and since I only had 8 reindeer with me, I had to turn the ones away that had already received one. The demand is there for them and some of the ones who want to pay for them have offered up to $10 each for the larger 3 1/2" tall ones that only take me about 6 minutes to cut.  If I could have an unlimited supply and a waiting line of paying customers, I could conceivably make as much as $100 per hour making and selling only the large reindeer. I don't plan on selling any, so I won't be your competition, but here is a possible great source of income to add to your Christmas Season revenue. Once you learn to make the reindeer there are already many patterns available of compound cut patterns that you can make, and at least for a while, you will have something unique to sell with no competition. All it will take is a little effort to master the art of compound cutting with a quality scroll saw like a DeWalt 788 or better that's adjusted for a perfectly straight blade side to side, as well as front to back. My posts have given you everything that you need to know, even how to get the blade perfectly straight in your saw. All you will need to do is to try it.

Charley

 

Hi Charlie,

I cut a dozen of these reindeer on my Delta Q3 and sold all of them at my recent craft fair for $10 each.  I did add a red ribbon around their necks though but stupidly didn't take any photographs.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge so freely Charlie.  Your generosity is appreciated!

Rob

 

[barb.j.enders]

On 11/13/2017 at 2:55 PM, octoolguy said:

I have a question regarding the printing of the pattern. Or any pattern for that matter. When it comes to controlling my printer I never seem to be able to get it to do what I want. How do you take the pattern of the reindeer and print out as many as Charley mentioned on a single sheet of paper? I can't seem to figure that out. Any help from you folks would be greatly appreciated. I have an Epson WF-3640 printer. When I tell it to do wallet size pictures, I only get one instead of the 9 that it says I can print. I can't seem to find the setting for that.

Ray

 

I haven't read through all the responses so this may have been addressed already.  Import the pattern to a "word" document (I use open office or google docs).  You can then right click on the picture and a dialogue box will open, select copy, then you can paste & paste & paste.  Create as many copies as you need and line up on the paper. Print as normal.  Hope this makes sense.

 

[barb.j.enders]

I also have a compound cut chess set all ready to go.  Started a  couple of them but got sidetracked.  Need to get them finished for the upcoming boating season.

[CharleyL]

16 hours ago, octoolguy said:

Charley, when you say "perfectly" straight side to side and front to back, how perfect are you saying? On my 788 I have tried to get the front to back movement "perfect" but after elongating the holes and trying to move the armature forward/backward I can't seem to get any improvement and if anything, it gets worse. I'm probably talking about 1/8" total over the entire up/down movement. I can't seem to improve on that. Any suggestions?

Ray

 

When you cut out of a block of wood that you know to have been cut to size square, and the blade breaks out at the top or bottom before it  breaks out at the other end, your blade is not straight front to back.

When you cut out of a block of wood that you know to have been cut to size square  and the top and bottom of the cut is not parallel with the side edge of the block of wood, the table is not perfectly at 90 deg with the blade.

When you are not cutting anything, but watching the blade closely using a bright light as it moves up and down at a slow to moderate speed, and the blade has a blur or side to side shift as it moves, one of the set screws in the blade  clamps needs adjusting (this is for DeWalt 788 type blade clamps). These are what the thumb screws push the blade against when tightening the thumb screws. I use BLUE Locktite to keep these set screws from gradually moving on their own. A tiny dab on the thread of the set screw before installing it is all that is necessary. Be sure to only use Blue Locktite and not some other color. The blue Locktite holds the threads from moving but does not prevent it from moving if you ever want to change the adjustment. Other colors are for much more permanent bonding. You want the blade to move straight up and down, with no side movement.

The thicker your wood or stack is that you will be cutting, the more important that these adjustments become. If you ever cut a moderately thick piece of wood and discover that a piece that has been cut free of the pattern will not slide easily out in the up or down direction, your blade is not moving straight up and down, and it can be caused by any one or more of these. 

With the DeWalt 788 and similar saws, the blade will move slightly forward and backward because of the arc followed by the short blade arms. This "orbital" action helps the saw cut more aggressively than a saw that moves the blade perfectly straight up and down because it helps to clear the blade teeth of saw dust with each stroke. As long as the blade is straight during this movement it is fine. There is no adjustment to correct for it anyway.   

 

Charley

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by CharleyL

[CharleyL]

WOW !!! Rob and Barb, you are doing great at compound cutting. Was it fun?  

I knew the reindeer would be worthy money making products for craft shows because of the demand that I have created for them here.  Now you need to get good at making smaller reindeer so you can make ear rings from them, because I'm certain that there is money in them too, but don't expect to make them as fast as the larger sizes. Their legs must be cut exactly right or they will fall apart, sometimes before they are finished. With the lacquer coating and jewelry purchase and assembly there is considerably more time and money involved in them, and two reindeer are required for each, so plan on 2-3 hours of time for each pair.  

I'm totally "hooked" on compound scroll saw cutting and rarely do anything else any more. My second batch of reindeer ear rings is in process now with 16  little reindeer already cut and waiting for lacquer and jewelry pieces.  I'd have enough for 24  pair by now if my eyes didn't stop me. I switch to the larger sizes when my eyes get tired, so have made about 25 of them in the past week too. But I have other commitments, that are severely limiting my reindeer time. There's no chance of me reaching or passing the 426 count of reindeer  that I made last year.

I also have a Delta Q3 saw, but use the DeWalt most of the time, because blade replacement is so much easier on the DeWalt. The rocking action of a "C" frame saw makes these saws cut faster and I started doing compound cutting on the Q3 before I got the DeWalt. It's a great saw, if only it could have had a less finicky blade clamp design, but both saws do quite well on compound cutting. 

Charley

Edited December 8, 2017 by CharleyL

[Rob]

2 hours ago, CharleyL said:

WOW !!! Rob and Barb, you are doing great at compound cutting. Was it fun?  

I knew the reindeer would be worthy money making products for craft shows because of the demand that I have created for them here.  Now you need to get good at making smaller reindeer so you can make ear rings from them, because I'm certain that there is money in them too, but don't expect to make them as fast as the larger sizes. Their legs must be cut exactly right or they will fall apart, sometimes before they are finished. With the lacquer coating and jewelry purchase and assembly there is considerably more time and money involved in them, and two reindeer are required for each, so plan on 2-3 hours of time for each pair.  

I'm totally "hooked" on compound scroll saw cutting and rarely do anything else any more. My second batch of reindeer ear rings is in process now with 16  little reindeer already cut and waiting for lacquer and jewelry pieces.  I'd have enough for 24  pair by now if my eyes didn't stop me. I switch to the larger sizes when my eyes get tired, so have made about 25 of them in the past week too. But I have other commitments, that are severely limiting my reindeer time. There's no chance of me reaching or passing the 426 count of reindeer  that I made last year.

I also have a Delta Q3 saw, but use the DeWalt most of the time, because blade replacement is so much easier on the DeWalt. The rocking action of a "C" frame saw makes these saws cut faster and I started doing compound cutting on the Q3 before I got the DeWalt. It's a great saw, if only it could have had a less finicky blade clamp design, but both saws do quite well on compound cutting. 

Charley

Hi Charlie,

I remembered you also had a Q3.  I love mine, especially the quick clamps but prefer the tension lever on the DW788.  Unfortunately my second hand DeWalt died within three months of getting it and I have not had a chance to get it looked at.  Either the motor or the circuit board is at fault but not sure which.  The DW788 is not sold in NZ and second hand saws are rare here so I am a bit stuck.  If my Q3 dies, my only options are the Excalibur clone from Carbatec or to import a Hegner from Australia (the nearest distributor to NZ). 

The reindeers are fun to cut and people like them.  I show then a block of wood with the pattern applied and explain how they are cut.  For my next event, I will take a cut one still in the block so I can demonstrate it even better.  The first ones took me half an hour but I got that down to 10 minutes or so by the end of the dozen I cut.

Happy Christmas!

Rob