How old is this Hawk saw

[OCtoolguy]

I just found a used RBI Hawk saw by the serial number 20735. Can anybody give me an idea how old it is and what to look for on it. The price is something that I can afford for a second saw. Also, if any of you Hawk owners who have the knowledge could fill me in on what can be done to upgrade this saw it would be helpful. I did find out from Bushton/Nilus just now that it was made in late 1992 and has the variable speed motor. It has the lower blade clamp that has a thumb screw and from what I read it must be put into some sort of a slot in the base to change the blade. That sounds like a no sale but if there has been an upgrade to it then I'd like to know about it. I can pick this saw up pretty cheap and I'm very tempted but I don't want to buy something that will not be fun to use. Please, help me fill in the blanks.

 

Ray

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by octoolguy

[kmmcrafts]

This is my take on the saw.. since I have not seen the saw.. and just based off what I know about my older 220VS saw which is a 1993. Mine has the older style motor that if / when there becomes an issue with the variable speed.. there supposedly is no fix other than to replace the motor and controller together which Bushton will do but if I remember correctly cost around $350 plus you have to ship the saw to them. Not a huge issue to me because I'm pretty certain I can find a fix to do myself.. have seen where others have wired direct but then it's stuck at full speed..

As for the clamps.. there is a slot ( kind of oval shaped ) in the base of the saw that holds the clamp while you tighten the thumb screw.. Took me quite some time to get used to the clamps.. comes second nature now.. I do like the saw.. and really haven't had any issues with it.. but I also don't use it a whole lot either.. Only got it because the price was right. I upgraded the air hose to the flexible one ( add-on kit from Bushton ) . I don't think it has nearly the vibration as my newer Hawk.. but the newer one is also a 226 ( 26 inch throat ) so that could be a difference. It also tops out at 1500 SPM ( strokes per min. ) while the newer ones top at 1750 SPM

If you choose to go look at it.. take a look at the wedges at the back of the saw and see that they are fairly pointed.. they get worn and that will give a sign as to haw much the saw had been used.. a worn wedge can make your tension fluctuate during the stroke.. the wedge should be quite pointed.. They are located at the back of the arm and the tension rod goes through them.

I'm sure there is more I could say but this is a good start..

 

[Oldmansbike]

Mine is a 1996 Ultra Hawk 26 inch. The lower blade clamp is simple once you do it a couple of times. There's a hole in the accessory arm the same size as the roll pin in th blade clamp. You loosen the thumb screw take the old blade out then put a new blade into the lower blade holder then put the roll pin in the blade holder into the hole in accessory arm hold the blade straight then tighten the thumb screw. It takes about 5 seconds to do this once you have done it a few times. Total time for me to change a blade is probably about 30 seconds. It is a bottom feeder if that makes any difference to you. I have never tried top feeding but it looks like it would be a pain to do. I like my Hawk and will probably buy another one if this one wears out. 

[OCtoolguy]

3 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

This is my take on the saw.. since I have not seen the saw.. and just based off what I know about my older 220VS saw which is a 1993. Mine has the older style motor that if / when there becomes an issue with the variable speed.. there supposedly is no fix other than to replace the motor and controller together which Bushton will do but if I remember correctly cost around $350 plus you have to ship the saw to them. Not a huge issue to me because I'm pretty certain I can find a fix to do myself.. have seen where others have wired direct but then it's stuck at full speed..

As for the clamps.. there is a slot ( kind of oval shaped ) in the base of the saw that holds the clamp while you tighten the thumb screw.. Took me quite some time to get used to the clamps.. comes second nature now.. I do like the saw.. and really haven't had any issues with it.. but I also don't use it a whole lot either.. Only got it because the price was right. I upgraded the air hose to the flexible one ( add-on kit from Bushton ) . I don't think it has nearly the vibration as my newer Hawk.. but the newer one is also a 226 ( 26 inch throat ) so that could be a difference. It also tops out at 1500 SPM ( strokes per min. ) while the newer ones top at 1750 SPM

If you choose to go look at it.. take a look at the wedges at the back of the saw and see that they are fairly pointed.. they get worn and that will give a sign as to haw much the saw had been used.. a worn wedge can make your tension fluctuate during the stroke.. the wedge should be quite pointed.. They are located at the back of the arm and the tension rod goes through them.

I'm sure there is more I could say but this is a good start..

 

Thanks Kevin. This is exactly what I'm hoping to find out. The saw appears to be in decent condition considering it's age. Would you consider $150 to be a decent price if it's not too worn in the area you spoke of? I might even be able to dicker on that. What is the deal with the motor/conroller? What goes wrong with them?

 

[kmmcrafts]

2 minutes ago, Oldmansbike said:

Mine is a 1996 Ultra Hawk 26 inch. The lower blade clamp is simple once you do it a couple of times. There's a hole in the accessory arm the same size as the roll pin in th blade clamp. You loosen the thumb screw take the old blade out then put a new blade into the lower blade holder then put the roll pin in the blade holder into the hole in accessory arm hold the blade straight then tighten the thumb screw. It takes about 5 seconds to do this once you have done it a few times. Total time for me to change a blade is probably about 30 seconds. It is a bottom feeder if that makes any difference to you. I have never tried top feeding but it looks like it would be a pain to do. I like my Hawk and will probably buy another one if this one wears out. 

My 1998 226  ultra has this same style clamps.. but those older ones have a round clamp and there is not roll pin.. thus the slot on the base.. still somewhat the same concept though.. just wanted to clarify that so we don't confuse him with two different types of clamps.. The older ones clamps are called barrel clamps.. same basic barrel clamp as what the new Jet uses.. other than Hawks clamps have a brass bushing so you don't wear out the lower slot in the arm with the harder steel clamp that the Jet uses..

[kmmcrafts]

5 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

Thanks Kevin. This is exactly what I'm hoping to find out. The saw appears to be in decent condition considering it's age. Would you consider $150 to be a decent price if it's not too worn in the area you spoke of? I might even be able to dicker on that. What is the deal with the motor/conroller? What goes wrong with them?

 

Even if the wedges are worn.. that can be replaced.. ( not too expensive ) in fact you can sand them down to a fairly sharp point to.. however I am not sure how many times one can do that.. at some point I think you would need to send the arm in to have that part of it machined.. 

As for the controller, I'm not real certain what happens to them.. ( maybe the controller gets worn and doesn't work right ) I would think one could get a new controller and solder it up to work.. much like I did when i broke the one off on my newer Hawk. Hawk doesn't really offer any electronic service like that.. they just buy a new motor and controller assembly to install in the saw for you.. But I do know there was some issues with these motor / controller assemblies.. I've had mine go bonkers a couple times.. and fluctuate speed like jumping up speed real fast then slow where I had it set at.. mostly when ever I adjust the speed while the saw is running it got jumpy but only when I mess with the setting then it clears up in a couple seconds.. I just don't mess with the setting while the saw is running anymore and no issues.. 

 

Good condition saw is probably worth $150 I gave $100 for mine.. I figured it would give me a taste of what all the hype about Hawk saws was.. even if it only lasted a short time.. I've got my 100 out of it several times over and probably sold 500 - 1000 worth of projects that was made with that saw..

[Rockytime]

1992 is old? Holy smokes, my Hawk #314 must be pre-civil war! I knew absolutely nothing about scroll saws when I purchased this 14" Hawk. It originally was made to be used with a ShopSmith powering it. I took it home assuming it had an internal motor. NOT. I powered it with a small motor making it a single speed. It is mounted on stand offs because if placed flat on the table the motion works would strike the table top. I won't say what I paid for it. However it works flawlessly. I later bought an old 216vs Hawk. Both work wonderfully. If it were me I would go for it if I needed it.

[Rockytime]

I don't know what new Hawk clamps are like. Te original bottom clamps ha a brass sleeve which seemed stupid. I mad my own which work perfectly. Very simple.

BTW in a previous post I did not pay the $300 in the ad. I paid $100. Still it's only money.

[orangeman]

I paid $100 for a little used hawk mid 1990's vintage.

Seems to run OK without any vibration.

My DeWalt 788 is better suited for really fine work with jeweler's blades and FD puzzle blades however.

bb

[OCtoolguy]

Thanks Guys, this is not something I need nor have room for but I thought the price was good enough and it's located near me so it got my interest. I will give the ad a couple of days and see if there is any interest. If it's still there a day or two from now, I'll through out an offer.

 

Ray

 

[kmmcrafts]

14 minutes ago, orangeman said:

I paid $100 for a little used hawk mid 1990's vintage.

Seems to run OK without any vibration.

My DeWalt 788 is better suited for really fine work with jeweler's blades and FD puzzle blades however.

bb

I think a lot really depends on the person using the saw.. as well as the type of projects they make.. Love my Hawks for cutting thin stock with fine fret details.. ( something I don't do a lot of ) I find I like my DeWalt better  for cutting thicker ( 1/2") stock or stack cutting.. which is mostly what I do.. Still like cutting on the Hawk with thicker stock if I am not in any hurry to get the job done ( leisure cutting ).. but when orders come in and need done asap.. I go to the DeWalt.. as it's faster more aggressive at cutting... I'm guessing a Hawk would be a nice machine for a beginner.. because they don't chew the wood quite so fast and sharp turns are easier..