How do you hold your pieces of wood from sliding when you "Stack" cut... and other questions

[MarieC]

Hello Forum friends.  I have 4 questions:

1. Was wondering how to hold pieces of wood from sliding while cutting   
2. What is the thickest stack cut that you have had success cutting?
3. Can you stack cut Hardwood? (I want to cut two different hardwoods - Walnut and mahogany - 5/8" each) 
4. What size/type of blade would you recommend for cutting stacked hardwood

 Thank you in advance 

[OCtoolguy]

I've cut 4 pcs 1/4 think ea so 1 inch. I used wide blue tape and they stayed together well. Hardwoods all. Maple, walnut, poplar and padauk in different combos.

[kmmcrafts]

I've done as Ray mentioned with tape as well. I've also just used wood screws in waste areas.. just be sure to back the screw up slightly so it doesn't protrude through the back side and scratch your table all up. For the most part now days I have a pin nailer and I use to nail the pieces together. I typically don't do more than 5/8 inch thick stacks.. but have on occasion stacked 4 @ 1/8 and then cut the project then add 4 @ 1/4" to that back for backers and stack cut all of them so they are all cut the same size etc. 

Tape seem to work very well holding the stacks together.. I've used both masking tape and packing tape. Have heard of people using hot glue.. 

[Bill WIlson]

1 hour ago, MarieC said:

Hello Forum friends.  I have 4 questions:

1. Was wondering how to hold pieces of wood from sliding while cutting   
2. What is the thickest stack cut that you have had success cutting?
3. Can you stack cut Hardwood? (I want to cut two different hardwoods - Walnut and mahogany - 5/8" each) 
4. What size/type of blade would you recommend for cutting stacked hardwood

 Thank you in advance 

1.  I use hot glue.  Run strips down the edges of the blanks.  Holds pretty well for smaller pieces.  For larger pieces where the layers might want to separate in the middle, maybe use a few small brads, screws, etc, in the waste areas.  

2.  You can successfully cut whatever the maximum capacity of your saw is.  Just depends on the material and blade selection.  Personally I try to keep my stacks under 3/4" thick, mostly because I prefer to use the smallest blade I can, so cutting real thick stuff isn't fun.

3.  Absolutely.  Total of 1.25" thick will cut the same whether it's stacked layers or solid wood.

4.  The size of the blade totally depends on the pattern being cut, thickness and hardness of the material.  As I said above, I like using small blades because most of the stuff I cut is fairly detailed and smaller blades give me the best control.  For example, when I'm cutting Christmas ornaments, I typically stack 4 layers of 1/8" BB ply and I use an FDUR #1 blade, maybe a #3.  I could readily stack 6 or more layers, but I'd have to use a larger blade and the type of ornaments I usually cut don't really lend themselves well to a #5 or #7 size.  

[Wichman]

3 hours ago, MarieC said:

Hello Forum friends.  I have 4 questions:

1. Was wondering how to hold pieces of wood from sliding while cutting   
2. What is the thickest stack cut that you have had success cutting?
3. Can you stack cut Hardwood? (I want to cut two different hardwoods - Walnut and mahogany - 5/8" each) 
4. What size/type of blade would you recommend for cutting stacked hardwood

 Thank you in advance 

1. I have used; various types of tape, the different tapes all worked about the same. Pin nails; they work, their drawback is they can bend internally and when you hit the pin with the blade it's dulls pretty quick. Hot glue, works fairly well, but I've had glue failure before I got the piece fully cut. If the pieces are the same size I prefer clear packing tape, wrapped continually around the pieces, When cutting the outside of the piece use a pilot hole and cut the outside in one continuous line, if necessary drill multiple pilot holes in strategic locations around the outside of the pattern. Using this technique allows for the waste to help keep all the layers aligned. If the pieces are not the same size then I will use pin nails and tape.  

2. I have cut 4 layers 5/16" thick or 1 1/4" thick, but the cutting is very slow.

3. Yes you can stack cut Hardwood. Use the hardest wood as the top layer, it helps the bottom of the blade follow the pattern. With your mix the mahogany on the top should work best as it is slightly harder than the walnut (Janka scale).

4. Match the size of the blade to the type of cutting ( how sharp a turn you need to make ) not the thickness of the wood. My personal preference is FD Polar blades, for me, they have the greatest resistance to bending inside the cut.

[Scrappile]

I have cut up to 1/2" stacked,  but prefer no more than 3/8", no reason I can explain just what I am most comfortable with.  I tape the stock togeether with painter's tape, and I will put some small nails in waste areas to hold it even better.   I agree you can stack cut hardwood.  I can not answer about the blades.  I stick with smallest blades the work for me.. but I guess I am not good about talking about blades..  It is very personal. the answer from me is do not be afraid to try other things and use what works best for you, for what you are doing is the best blade.

Edited February 9, 2024 by Scrappile

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I am probably different than most here but that is who I am. To me I never have worried about cost of spray adhesive or tapes. Put that way out of my mind when it comes to working wood in the shop. Again this is me. Have been woodworking for over 45 years and scrolling for about 35 years. I tried the hot glue gun stuff and gave that up right away. never tried nails that is a waste of time. My method and by the way I scroll up to 1" thick one piece woods. I stack to about 5/8" and that is all. It allows me to stay with my favorite blades the FD penguin silver reverse blades #5. I use blue painters tape under all patterns as well as under stacks of wood. I do not use much BB so most my woods are hard woods. I will give opinions on this at the bottom. being I am never in a hurry I try to avoid stacking and usually do not make many duplicates of things anyway. When I want to stack cut. I put blue tape on both top and bottom  of the center pieces and then I use spray adhesive (various kinds depending on what is on sale) on a clean piece of white copy paper. I place that down and sandwich the center piece. I then do the same for the third layer. This way nothing moves no matter where I cut or how small the pieces are. They are well supported throughout. It works believe me. I blue tape top layer and spray adhesive pattern. Why I use blue tape is because it peels off very easily when the pattern is done. Now I do not let sit for weeks because the longer any tape sits on a project the harder it is to remove. I will then wipe down with MS and then lightly sand each piece. I will use a lighter tack tape like purple if I have very delicate cuts but it works the same. 

Now word about hard woods. Things to be aware of. When you stack your wood you better stack with all grain running the same way or your blade will wander and hard to control because blades will follow grain lines. Try to use the same type of woods together such as walnut and Mahagony because they have about the same consistency. If you use a wood as white oak and walnut you project just got harder to cut because of the denser white oak. Changing blades can help if you are use to doing that but not all blades react the same way in different woods. Woods with large grain lines can be troublesome. This is why when I use red oak and I use a ton of it, I pick the most straight grain less figured wood as I can get. That is what is nice about being able to go to a lumber yard and picking your own stock. 

This is my method and have doing it for awhile.

[jollyred]

I usually only stack cut 2 @ 1/4" pieces at once, so I just use my regular blades.  As far as holding them together, I use brad nails in the waste areas.  For smaller patterns (less than 12" square) it only takes 3 or 4 nails.  I usually drive the nails in till the point just comes slightly out the back of the stack.  Once all the nails are in, I turn the piece over and drive the points in flush with the back so they won't scratch up the saw table.  This gets all the hold that the nail has to give.  I also cut around the perimeter last, so it helps hold everything together.

Tom

[MarieC]

6 hours ago, Wichman said:

1. I have used; various types of tape, the different tapes all worked about the same. Pin nails; they work, their drawback is they can bend internally and when you hit the pin with the blade it's dulls pretty quick. Hot glue, works fairly well, but I've had glue failure before I got the piece fully cut. If the pieces are the same size I prefer clear packing tape, wrapped continually around the pieces, When cutting the outside of the piece use a pilot hole and cut the outside in one continuous line, if necessary drill multiple pilot holes in strategic locations around the outside of the pattern. Using this technique allows for the waste to help keep all the layers aligned. If the pieces are not the same size then I will use pin nails and tape.  

2. I have cut 4 layers 5/16" thick or 1 1/4" thick, but the cutting is very slow.

3. Yes you can stack cut Hardwood. Use the hardest wood as the top layer, it helps the bottom of the blade follow the pattern. With your mix the mahogany on the top should work best as it is slightly harder than the walnut (Janka scale).

4. Match the size of the blade to the type of cutting ( how sharp a turn you need to make ) not the thickness of the wood. My personal preference is FD Polar blades, for me, they have the greatest resistance to bending inside the cut.

Thank you for this info...never thought of pin nails bending, but they are pretty tiny.  Great suggestion regarding the pilot holes around the outside of the pattern that would work with alot of cutting that I do.  I don't mind cutting slow...I am retired and am in no hurry to finish this project...just hope to finish it sometime.  Thanks for the suggestion on the FD Polar blades...I have never tried them yet.  Thanks again for sharing your techniques.  Much appreciated.

[MarieC]

4 hours ago, Scrappile said:

I have cut up to 1/2" stacked,  but prefer no more than 3/8", no reason I can explain just what I am most comfortable with.  I tape the stock togeether with painter's tape, and I will put some small nails in waste areas to hold it even better.   I agree you can stack cut hardwood.  I can not answer about the blades.  I stick with smallest blades the work for me.. but I guess I am not good about talking about blades..  It is very personal. the answer from me is do not be afraid to try other things and use what works best for you, for what you are doing is the best blade.

Paul, I am hoping to try my Hawk for this cutting as it seems I can hold the blade tighter so less drift than with my EX 21.  I will stick to my smallest blades for the project as you suggests.  Perhaps I will thin my wood.... anyway,  I hope my project will turn out okay.  It is another one of my crazy creations so it is really making me use my brain to make it work so I appreciate all the help I can get...Thanks again.

[MarieC]

1 hour ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

 My method and by the way I scroll up to 1" thick one piece woods. I stack to about 5/8" and that is all. It allows me to stay with my favorite blades the FD penguin silver reverse blades #5. I use blue painters tape under all patterns as well as under stacks of wood. I do not use much BB so most my woods are hard woods. I will give opinions on this at the bottom. being I am never in a hurry I try to avoid stacking and usually do not make many duplicates of things anyway. When I want to stack cut. I put blue tape on both top and bottom  of the center pieces and then I use spray adhesive (various kinds depending on what is on sale) on a clean piece of white copy paper. I place that down and sandwich the center piece. I then do the same for the third layer. This way nothing moves no matter where I cut or how small the pieces are. They are well supported throughout. It works believe me. I blue tape top layer and spray adhesive pattern. Why I use blue tape is because it peels off very easily when the pattern is done. Now I do not let sit for weeks because the longer any tape sits on a project the harder it is to remove. I will then wipe down with MS and then lightly sand each piece. I will use a lighter tack tape like purple if I have very delicate cuts but it works the same. 

Now word about hard woods. Things to be aware of. When you stack your wood you better stack with all grain running the same way or your blade will wander and hard to control because blades will follow grain lines. Try to use the same type of woods together such as walnut and Mahagony because they have about the same consistency. If you use a wood as white oak and walnut you project just got harder to cut because of the denser white oak. Changing blades can help if you are use to doing that but not all blades react the same way in different woods. Woods with large grain lines can be troublesome. This is why when I use red oak and I use a ton of it, I pick the most straight grain less figured wood as I can get. That is what is nice about being able to go to a lumber yard and picking your own stock. 

This is my method and have doing it for awhile.

Thank you for your suggestions, I have never heard of the FD penguin silver reverse blades.  Will check up on those.  So, a question for clarification.... (when answering this, let's say I have the walnut on top and the mahogany on bottom):

This is regarding when you mentioned using the spray adhesive on the white copy paper....So, after spraying the paper, would you then stick it on the top of the mahogany, then spray it again and put the walnut on top of that and then wrap them both up with blue painter's tape?  And when they are all done being cut, do they come apart okay?

Thank you again for your help....very much appreciated!

[MarieC]

9 hours ago, OCtoolguy said:

I've cut 4 pcs 1/4 think ea so 1 inch. I used wide blue tape and they stayed together well. Hardwoods all. Maple, walnut, poplar and padauk in different combos.

Ray, thanks for the tip on the wide blue tape.  I will look for that.  I don't have any blue tape...just the green frog tape.

[MarieC]

9 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

I've done as Ray mentioned with tape as well. I've also just used wood screws in waste areas.. just be sure to back the screw up slightly so it doesn't protrude through the back side and scratch your table all up. For the most part now days I have a pin nailer and I use to nail the pieces together. I typically don't do more than 5/8 inch thick stacks.. but have on occasion stacked 4 @ 1/8 and then cut the project then add 4 @ 1/4" to that back for backers and stack cut all of them so they are all cut the same size etc. 

Tape seem to work very well holding the stacks together.. I've used both masking tape and packing tape. Have heard of people using hot glue.. 

 

8 hours ago, Bill WIlson said:

1.  I use hot glue.  Run strips down the edges of the blanks.  Holds pretty well for smaller pieces.  For larger pieces where the layers might want to separate in the middle, maybe use a few small brads, screws, etc, in the waste areas.  

2.  You can successfully cut whatever the maximum capacity of your saw is.  Just depends on the material and blade selection.  Personally I try to keep my stacks under 3/4" thick, mostly because I prefer to use the smallest blade I can, so cutting real thick stuff isn't fun.

3.  Absolutely.  Total of 1.25" thick will cut the same whether it's stacked layers or solid wood.

4.  The size of the blade totally depends on the pattern being cut, thickness and hardness of the material.  As I said above, I like using small blades because most of the stuff I cut is fairly detailed and smaller blades give me the best control.  For example, when I'm cutting Christmas ornaments, I typically stack 4 layers of 1/8" BB ply and I use an FDUR #1 blade, maybe a #3.  I could readily stack 6 or more layers, but I'd have to use a larger blade and the type of ornaments I usually cut don't really lend themselves well to a #5 or #7 size.  

Kevin and Bill, I don't think the hot glue will work where I am right now.  It is so cold in my shop that when I put it on the wood it doesn't really stick or it won't squish down enough by the time I get the pieces together.   May try some of the other suggestions though.  Thank you!

Bill, thank you for letting me know that I can cut my two pieces.  I was really wondering if it was possible.  My "New" G426 hawk can cut up to 2" but I would not try that.  And yes I like using the smaller blades as well, especially for what I am trying to do.  I do hope it works. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

1 hour ago, MarieC said:

Thank you for your suggestions, I have never heard of the FD penguin silver reverse blades.  Will check up on those.  So, a question for clarification.... (when answering this, let's say I have the walnut on top and the mahogany on bottom):

This is regarding when you mentioned using the spray adhesive on the white copy paper....So, after spraying the paper, would you then stick it on the top of the mahogany, then spray it again and put the walnut on top of that and then wrap them both up with blue painter's tape?  And when they are all done being cut, do they come apart okay?

Thank you again for your help....very much appreciated!

No I always use blue painters tape in between anything. I put blue tape on top of one piece and spray the pattern and stick that to top. The next level I put blue tape on top and bottom. Now I spray white paper and sandwich it between layer 1 and 2. Now I put blue tape on top of piece 3 only and spray another piece of white paper and sandwich that between layers 2 and 3. That is the most I cut at one time. Now if the pieces are 3/8" thick i probably cut one at a time. Only when they are about 1/4" thick. In your case it does not matter what is on top Mahagony or walnut. They are about the same consistency. They are not highly figured. I prefer to peel off blue tape as opposed to sticky sprayed on paper. Blue tape peels nicely and yes you can get wide blue tape. I use that.. Get it at home depot under the contractor price where you buy a bunch of roles at one time. I use that stuff for alot of things. never goes to waste.

Edited February 9, 2024 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[Bill WIlson]

I recall another method of holding layers together for stack cutting.  I think it was Rolf who suggested using round tooth picks instead of brads or pin nails.  Drill a hole a tiny bit smaller than the toothpick.  Drive the toothpick in and cut flush.  No worries about scratching your table.

I've never tried this, but it sounds interesting.

[TAIrving]

Lots of good advice here.  I will not repeat those but will mention problems I have had when stack cutting.  I tend to experiment, try different techniques, and thus learn the hard way.

There are 2 things that can go wrong: boards shifting and blade effects / not vertical.  

If the boards shift, even just a little bit, the lower boards are ruined.  

If the blade is not vertical, each layer will be cut differently than any of the other layers.   This effect is accentuated as we rotate the stack during the cutting process.  

When securing the boards around the edges by any of the techniques described herein, ensure that the boards are indeed held securely.  Taping the edges loosely (anything other than very tight) allows shifting.  Taping boards of different sizes does not work; pinning or gluing them might work better.

But here's the real problem with taping, pinning, gluing, etc.  As you cut the pattern, the inner parts are no longer securely attached to the edges and might move even though the edges do not.  JohnT's technique of using blue tape and glue on the entire surface of each layer is the only technique that addresses this problem.  I plan to use that technique for my future stacking cuts.  Thanks for that John @JTTHECLOCKMAN.

The blade must be vertical as seen from the front and from the side.  The blade can be non-vertical due to initial setup or due to pushing the wood into the blade too hard or due to putting side pressure on the wood while cutting.  So, use a sharp blade and don't rush it.  

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

That observation is very true  and whatever method you use the important thing is to keep all layers the same all the way through the cuts. Thus if you are using the taping of the edge method you can possibly shift the pieces just by your fingers pushing too hard on a layer as you turn of something like that. You may not notice it until after you take apart. As I said the way I do it is not the only way but it has worked for me for years. You will probably say well taking all those small pieces of tape off is a pain. No matter what you do you have to remove some type of adhesive. I would like to add one more important point, when doing any taping under a pattern or under layers, do not overlap tape from one strip to other. You want the pieces or the pattern to lay flat as possible. Good luck and Happy Scrolling.

[barb.j.enders]

I recently tried double sided tape.  Didn't work out well on the project I tried it on.  The project was too delicate and the tape was too strong.  Lots of missing leaves.  I haven't yet tried to rescue.

[Jim McDonald]

I clamp the layers, then hot glue the edges with strips every 3/4" or so. Then blue tape on the top, spray glue, pattern and clear tape.

Early on, I had to remember not to push myself or the blade would deflect internally, but now, I have an automatic setting in my brain to take it easy on stacks.

Since I done compound cuts from 1.5" stock, I guess I could do a stack that think, but I prefer to stay around one inch on fretwork.

[MarieC]

11 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

No I always use blue painters tape in between anything. I put blue tape on top of one piece and spray the pattern and stick that to top. The next level I put blue tape on top and bottom. Now I spray white paper and sandwich it between layer 1 and 2. Now I put blue tape on top of piece 3 only and spray another piece of white paper and sandwich that between layers 2 and 3. That is the most I cut at one time. Now if the pieces are 3/8" thick i probably cut one at a time. Only when they are about 1/4" thick. In your case it does not matter what is on top Mahagony or walnut. They are about the same consistency. They are not highly figured. I prefer to peel off blue tape as opposed to sticky sprayed on paper. Blue tape peels nicely and yes you can get wide blue tape. I use that.. Get it at home depot under the contractor price where you buy a bunch of roles at one time. I use that stuff for alot of things. never goes to waste.

Thank you John, so just for clarification: If I put the walnut on top and the mahagony on bottom, the layers would look like this when all done:

1. Pattern (except I will not be using a pattern on this one - free hand only...but if I do use a pattern in the future I will keep this in mind)
2. Spray adhesive (no need for this for me this time)
3. Blue tape (again no pattern for me)
4. Walnut
5. Blue tape on bottom of walnut
6. adhesive spray on top of paper (to be placed on blue tape on bottom of walnut)
7. paper
8. adhesive spray on bottom of paper (to be placed on blue tape on top of Mahogany)
9. blue tape on top of mahogany
10. Mahagony
11.  So no need to wrap the entire piece with blue tape before putting your pattern on?

Thanks for the tip regarding don't let the blue tape overlap.

[MarieC]

 

1 hour ago, Jim McDonald said:

I clamp the layers, then hot glue the edges with strips every 3/4" or so. Then blue tape on the top, spray glue, pattern and clear tape.

Early on, I had to remember not to push myself or the blade would deflect internally, but now, I have an automatic setting in my brain to take it easy on stacks.

Since I done compound cuts from 1.5" stock, I guess I could do a stack that think, but I prefer to stay around one inch on fretwork.

Thanks Jim for the tips and for the reminder to keep everything straight and look at the blade.  I don't want to screw this up if at all possible 

[MarieC]

4 hours ago, TAIrving said:

  

When securing the boards around the edges by any of the techniques described herein, ensure that the boards are indeed held securely.  Taping the edges loosely (anything other than very tight) allows shifting.  Taping boards of different sizes does not work; pinning or gluing them might work better.

The blade must be vertical as seen from the front and from the side.  The blade can be non-vertical due to initial setup or due to pushing the wood into the blade too hard or due to putting side pressure on the wood while cutting.  So, use a sharp blade and don't rush it.  

 

Thank you for the tip especially regarding keeping the pieces of boards the same size if at all possible if taping and if not the use of pinning etc....and I will work hard on taking my time.  Thanks again!

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

56 minutes ago, MarieC said:

Thank you John, so just for clarification: If I put the walnut on top and the mahagony on bottom, the layers would look like this when all done:

1. Pattern (except I will not be using a pattern on this one - free hand only...but if I do use a pattern in the future I will keep this in mind)
2. Spray adhesive (no need for this for me this time)
3. Blue tape (again no pattern for me)
4. Walnut
5. Blue tape on bottom of walnut
6. adhesive spray on top of paper (to be placed on blue tape on bottom of walnut)
7. paper
8. adhesive spray on bottom of paper (to be placed on blue tape on top of Mahogany)
9. blue tape on top of mahogany
10. Mahagony
11.  So no need to wrap the entire piece with blue tape before putting your pattern on?

Thanks for the tip regarding don't let the blue tape overlap.

Marie, if I were doing what you are here is my steps:

Walnut on top and Mahogony on bottom

If you were using a pattern then blue tape top of walnut and stick pattern to it. (I do this because I find it easier to pull off blue tape over pulling off sprayed adhesive on pattern. Too much sticky residue left behind that needs to be cleaned off)

Blue tape bottom side of walnut and blue tape top side of Mahagony.

Between these 2 layers spray front and back of white copy paper with adhesive of your choice ( I like 3M 77spray adhesive) let set for a few seconds and then stick to bottom of walnut and then line up Mahagony and press that on top.

You are done. If using more than two layers just rinse and repeat. No need for anything on bottom of Mahogony. 

[MarieC]

1 hour ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Marie, if I were doing what you are here is my steps:

Walnut on top and Mahogony on bottom

If you were using a pattern then blue tape top of walnut and stick pattern to it. (I do this because I find it easier to pull off blue tape over pulling off sprayed adhesive on pattern. Too much sticky residue left behind that needs to be cleaned off)

Blue tape bottom side of walnut and blue tape top side of Mahagony.

Between these 2 layers spray front and back of white copy paper with adhesive of your choice ( I like 3M 77spray adhesive) let set for a few seconds and then stick to bottom of walnut and then line up Mahagony and press that on top.

You are done. If using more than two layers just rinse and repeat. No need for anything on bottom of Mahogony. 

Okay, I got it.  Thanks so very much!

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

1 hour ago, MarieC said:

Okay, I got it.  Thanks so very much!

No problem. Give it a try and if do not like it you can try something else. Good luck.