Circles and more circles

[Ber Gueda]

After two months of almost daily scrolling there is something I cannot manage yet, and this are circles. I am not capable of scrolling a circumference. The result is always a tragedy and sanding doesn't make it much better. It might be the frustration of a newbie, but maybe there are some techniques that help to get a better outcome. I welcome every comment, hint or recommendation. 

[preprius]

The below comments are based on bowls experience. Ok also wooden cowboy hats. 

 

Make your pattern lines thin.  

I spin the wood with my left hand and try to keep my palm centered. 

The pressure of the blade cutting the wood changes the center point.  Hard wood will force me to shift my left hand a little bit backward and rotation just bit into the blade.  This because the blade gets push back behind the center point.  Always keep the wood spinning.  

Restarting from where you left off is tricky also. So I try to remember how much pressure and hand position I was doing before I stopped. 

The wood will have hard places so you have to adjust pressure and center point hand position.  When going diagonal to the grain you will notice this.  You can hear the difference as you approach this area.  The blade will try to follow the grain also.

 

Don't zone out. Always think ahead about where in the grain you are.

In the pic below the distance between line are 1/8 of an inch 3.175mm.  

This hard wood is 3/4 inch thick and takes about 1 hour per circle. So taking a break from intense focus is a must. Some blades are slightly dull and it last 40 mins. Sometimes I have to change blades before the circle is done.

The steeper the angle takes more force to hold the wood on the table but you must keep it spinning. 

The second picture, I put the cut circles back into the pattern area to see how I was doing. You can see that the blade was trying to go straight as I wanted to start cutting across the grain.

Ask more question please.

Edited July 25, 2024 by preprius

[Wichman]

What size circles?

what size and type of blade?

what is the problem(s)?

If you are just having problem keeping the blade on the line and it's wandering to both sides, then I would try a larger blade or change the style of blade. Case in point; my blade of choice is the FD polar, this blade is more teeth than "back" but the Scroll Reverse blade are more "back" with little stubs for teeth, this blade cuts extremely smooth with very little tearout, but will not turn as tightly as the Polar blade.

If the problem is just keeping to the line, then practice, practice, practice . If a particular technique is bothering me then I'll add one item to the patterns I'm cutting to practice in the waste area every time I cut.

Try an assortment of blades on different diameters of circles, switch up sizes an styles to see if one stands out from the others.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

How do you get to Carnegie Hall?  Practice, practice, practice. let the saw do the work. Just enough pressure to spin the wood and at times stop pushing and let the blade relax. Many times you will be surprised how much you are pushing off course. learn to anchor with your opposite hand as you push. Using a good saw helps. Make sure the surface of the table is just slippery enough to spin the wood but also have some bite to hold it back. It is a balance in the scrollsaw world we all need to learn. I see people make their tables so slick you have no control. It is all about control. I have to say once I got rid of my Dremel 2 speed saw when I first started and bought a Hegner and then 2 RBI saws I was able to saw dead on any shape. It also helps if you have steady hands. If you have shaky hands then it will fight you. Good luck. 

[barb.j.enders]

I found that I did better cutting circles going counter-clockwise.  I normally cut clockwise.  I also will only look at the immediate line just before cutting.  I fools my brain into thinking it is a straight line.  That is a little counter-intuitive for most cutting because you usually want to look where you are cutting.

[FrankEV]

22 hours ago, Ber Gueda said:

After two months of almost daily scrolling there is something I cannot manage yet, and this are circles. I am not capable of scrolling a circumference. The result is always a tragedy and sanding doesn't make it much better. It might be the frustration of a newbie, but maybe there are some techniques that help to get a better outcome. I welcome every comment, hint or recommendation. 

There are circles and circles.  Are you refering tob big circles (measured in inches) or smal circles (dine size or smaller)?  

For small fretwork type circles (holes), if not small enought to do with a drill, I like to stay just inside the line and, if necessary, shave up to the line using a spiral blade.  This will usually produce suitable "round" circles/holes.

For large circles (when the piece is independant, like a plaque backer) I usually cut , again,  about 1/16" wide of the line and use my belt sander to finish removing material uniformaly up to the line.  I have been fairly successful doing it this way.

Big circles, like done in bowlmaking, when the cut is only made once between matching pieces...that is another story.  This takes practice, practice and more practce.  Unlike others, I find I can follow a circle or curve line better using a small blade to follow the line and by cutting very slowly.  If I start to deviate from the line, I can correct before the error is noticable.  For this reason I also like to print my patterns with very fine red lines. i don't try to split the line. I find it is easier too be accusrate by cutting along one side side the line. If I can see a little Red along the cut I know I'm nearly perfect.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2024 by FrankEV

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I had a ton of practice when I was making alot of those collapsible baskets in the older years of my scrollsawing adventures. Patterns all came from Rick Longabough of The Berry Basket fame. Gave the Hegner alot of time cutting those. 

 

 

[Ber Gueda]

Thanks everyone for the answers. This community is just amazing.

I am having bigger problems with big circles (I tried to cut a relatively big snail and the result was as if the poor snail had been crushed by a car on a lonely road). I like Franks's idea about cutting a little bit wider and then try to get to the right circumference with the belt sander. This is very useful for outer circles, but for the inner ones I guess a Dremel or similar tool should be used.

Barb's option of cutting counter-clockwise worths also a try. Never thought about that.

And I very appreciate also Wichman's advice on blades. Definitely I need to test some others. I never used a spiral blade, for instance. 

But I agree with all of the comments about practice, practice and practise. And patience. After this small period of time cutting I have realised that it's not only about "following the line" of the pattern, but also about applying the right strength, making the right movements, anticipating the next turn, feeling how the wood seems to dictate the path of the blade and so on. And all this requires also concentration. 

Thanks to all again.

[Davevand]

I figured out that I like to cut patters going counter-clockwise, I can see the difference in the cut quality of a circle I cut counter-clockwise vs clockwise.

I also look where I want to cut, not so much where I am cutting. If I am looking where the blade is cutting I wind up make lots of little minor corrections instead of a long sweeping smooth cut.

[OCtoolguy]

Exactly what I was going to suggest. When I'm cutting, and almost always it's clockwise, I try to watch about 1/4" to 3/8" ahead of the point where the blade is contacting the material. If you watch the exact contact point, it's too late to change. The damage is already done. Some very wise and astute member here on the SSV told me that when I first started and I took it to heart. It hasn't failed me yet.

[kmmcrafts]

I almost always cut counterclockwise... I don't know if that was something I learned worked better years ago or what my reasoning is behind that but it's just habit and when you drill before cutting I always know where the cut is going to be and strategically place the holes with counterclockwise in mind.. I do cut either direction and really don't notice any difference.. 

I think one of the older blade styles that was my go to blade at one time did work best cutting counterclockwise and i think now it's just habit.. When first starting I used Olsen blades.. then I switched to FD blades.. and now almost exclusively use Pegas.

JT I made my share of those collapsible baskets back in the day too. I wonder if i made a wide variety of them if i could get some sales on them once again. They kinda fizzled out but was once a big seller.. mostly before my selling days.. but my Dad did fairly well with them for several years.    

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Who knows if they would sell any more. I do know I seen one on FB I would love to take a stab at someday. Of course without the carvings which I do not do. It is an interesting concept. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/100087503018832/videos/3656385241241166

[dgman]

You might try the pivot point method. I’ve been using this method for years, and makes cutting easier, especially circles and curves. I am left handed so if you are right handed, do the opposite. I  use a finger as the pivot. Place the finger close to the blade. I usually Use my right index finger but can change to any finger on either hand depending on wood blank position. I use the pivot to hold down the blank. I will use my left hand to push the wood through the blade, while allowing the wood to pivot on the finger. I can cut in any direction so cutting clockwise or counter clockwise makes no difference to me. 

[FrankEV]

10 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

I almost always cut counterclockwise...

I did too until recently when starting to do some Intarsia cutting.

For my Art panels, and yes, mostly using spiral blades, I almost exclusively cut interior cutouts CCW attempting to only error on the waste side of the line.  This allows for easy clean up of the cut as may be needed.

Of late, wanting to cut basically Intarsia blocks out of thicker wood using standard blades, I have found to accomplish this accurately I need too cut CW while again wanting to error only on the waste side the line to allow for clean-up by sanding to fit later.   

However, If you analize this just a bit, you can see that it is not the route of the blade (CCW or CW) but, it is more importantly, which side is the waste side of the line you follow.  Although theoretically you are supposed to split the cut line, as I am right handed, I prefer to follow/cut along the right side of the line, as i look toward the blade.  If the thin red line of my pattern remains just visable after  the cut is complete I know the cut is just about perfect.  

As I have mentioned before, with this approach applied to cutting large circles, ovals, and long curves, I find I can be quite accurate.

[Tbow388]

I suggest to look more of where you are going with the blade instead of where you are at. When I did that, my lines for bowls got much better.

[OCtoolguy]

17 hours ago, dgman said:

You might try the pivot point method. I’ve been using this method for years, and makes cutting easier, especially circles and curves. I am left handed so if you are right handed, do the opposite. I  use a finger as the pivot. Place the finger close to the blade. I usually Use my right index finger but can change to any finger on either hand depending on wood blank position. I use the pivot to hold down the blank. I will use my left hand to push the wood through the blade, while allowing the wood to pivot on the finger. I can cut in any direction so cutting clockwise or counter clockwise makes no difference to me. 

Lefties, UNITE!

Edited August 1, 2024 by OCtoolguy

[jerry walters]

For those people who are new to this forum I think explaining what is clockwise and what is counterclockwise.  This is something I stuggled with for quite some time.  I used to think it was the way you turned the wood.  Now, I think I'm right, it's the way the blade goes through the wood.  Am I right? 

Jerry

[FrankEV]

23 minutes ago, jerry walters said:

For those people who are new to this forum I think explaining what is clockwise and what is counterclockwise.  This is something I stuggled with for quite some time.  I used to think it was the way you turned the wood.  Now, I think I'm right, it's the way the blade goes through the wood.  Am I right? 

Jerry

It is the direction or path the blade follows around a cut out.  The cut out material maybe waste material or a saved piece for an Intarsia or segmental project.  Use a simple circle fo example.  If the circle is a hole in the wood or a saved piece, CCW blade travel is opposite to the way the hands of the clock go, known as CW.

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