Kinda of an odd question for layered projects.

[Hawk]

So, I'm looking at a layered project that measures about 15" in diameter.. I was thinking of using natural woods but the cost is a bit up there. Plan B was plywood with varying stains to achieve the colors for the different layers.  I'm also tinkering with the idea of entering this in local contests, so my question is would the natural woods do better than the plywood? or would the overall project overshadow the wood used?

 

Chris

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

That is a tough question because we have no idea what type project this is. When you say layered, what does that mean. Steve Good does alot of projects that are layered. The guy here Fox something or other does all layered projects. Some people paint layers. Is this a 3D project or some sort of scene project? need more info or examples.  

[dgman]

That’s a tough question to answer without knowing what exactly the project is.

1 minute ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

That is a tough question because we have no idea what type project this is. When you say layered, what does that mean. Steve Good does alot of projects that are layered. The guy here Fox something or other does all layered projects. Some people paint layers. Is this a 3D project or some sort of scene project? need more info or examples.  

I was in mid answer when JT’s answer came up, and was thinking the same thing. For me, i never use plywood for scrollsaw projects. I always use hardwoods. Yes hardwoods are getting more expensive but then so is everything else.

[Hawk]

The project in mind is very similar to the  layered stuff Alex Fox has. My gut tells me to use only natural woods, but my mind is urging me to go with plywood using stains for the different layers

[Scrappile]

I've done some of Alex Fox's layered patterns.  I painted the layers, but I was making gifts, not entering a contest.  How about doing both and then deciding?

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

13 hours ago, Hawk said:

The project in mind is very similar to the  layered stuff Alex Fox has. My gut tells me to use only natural woods, but my mind is urging me to go with plywood using stains for the different layers

The biggest thing with plywood is the end grain and multiple plys seen. Many people including myself see this use as cheap because they refer to plywood as cheaper than solid woods and many times it is. But we all know BB is not really cheap because of its construction. But that is a stigma that has to be overcome. Then there is the stability thing. With solids woods and depending how thin you are making, the warping factor comes into play and thus plywood wins out there. Then there is the staining thing. BB or any plywood does not take stain well and look as good as solid wood. Again the ends take stain differently than face of BB. Some people get around this by painting. Now you can get shades of plywood but they are only with veneer top layers and again the end grain is what jumps out. Cost wise you are probably in the same area because now you have to buy stains and do that work as opposed to working with nature's woods. I am in the soild wood arena. 

[kmmcrafts]

I'm not a fan of stains but I might be biased because I can never get plywood to take a "good stain job" and I also look at stained pieces and to me they look fake just like they are. Don't get me wrong as I have seen some beautiful work that was stained and or painted.. Dave Monk does wonderful work as does FrankEV and probably many others but I see a lot of stuff that just makes me cringe at because the project would look so much better had they not went the stained route.. 

I also understand that some projects do better being made from a more stable wood so as the others said.. might depend on the project at hand. I vote for solid lumber if it's doable. 

Also gluing layers with stained plywood or painted the glue doesn't like to hold together as well on those surfaces unless you use some sort of epoxy or something.. maybe strength isn't a issue here? 

[FrankEV]

15 hours ago, Hawk said:

The project in mind is very similar to the  layered stuff Alex Fox has. My gut tells me to use only natural woods, but my mind is urging me to go with plywood using stains for the different layers

I would go with your gut.  You can buy nice quality thin boards in varying species (giving you different colors if desired) from Ocooch Hardwoods.  It may be a simple layered project, but if you treat it like Intarsia, using the natural wood colors, a good sanding job, and finishing with a good clear coat of Lacquer or Polycrylic,  the project will look much nicer than using  plywood and stain.   Just my two pennies worth.     

[Wichman]

For a project that is 15" wide, you're pretty much limited to plywood, any solid wood that wide will be subject to warping and unless you take special protections it could be a real disaster. Even with plywood you will have to do glue ups using thick, non warped pieces to support the project during the glue curing phase to keep it flat.

When I've done glue ups of wide patterns in solid wood I have reversed the warp directions so the they have to fight against each other to warp. I put the warping so that the center is together and the sides are apart, easier to get the warping under control, it's harder to clamp the center of a warped panel than the edges. I had to use this technique on the fishing rod rack. 12" diameter, 5/16 thick on both pieces of wood.

[Hawk]

19 hours ago, Scrappile said:

I've done some of Alex Fox's layered patterns.  I painted the layers, but I was making gifts, not entering a contest.  How about doing both and then deciding?

That has actually crossed my mind.  And I believe that would be the best choice instead of trying to decide if one is better without being able to compare them side by side

[Hawk]

4 hours ago, FrankEV said:

I would go with your gut.  You can buy nice quality thin boards in varying species (giving you different colors if desired) from Ocooch Hardwoods.  It may be a simple layered project, but if you treat it like Intarsia, using the natural wood colors, a good sanding job, and finishing with a good clear coat of Lacquer or Polycrylic,  the project will look much nicer than using  plywood and stain.   Just my two pennies worth.     

I totally agree with you on that.

 

[Hawk]

I just wanted to thank everyone for your thoughts on this.  It really helps to get input from fellow scrollers which is why this place (SSV) is great.

Thanks everyone!!!

[BadBob]

I generally dislike stains. I would much rather use contrasting or different-colored woods. Sometimes I need the contrast, but the design of the piece requires that all the parts be cut from the same piece of wood. 

I use plywood when strength or large panels are required. If I am concerned about the color of the plywood, I have made my own plywood in small quantities. The first time I did this was for a mastodon that I made for my grandson. I made the plywood from 1/16-inch thick wood. The shop-made plywood was incredibly strong. After cutting out the tusks for the mastodon, I could not break them with my hands. So far, it has survived two grandkids. 

You need to consider the project at hand and its intended use. Will it sit on a shelf, hang on a wall, or will it get some hard use, like a kid's toy might?

With solid wood, it's essential to keep in mind that wood expands and contracts with changes in humidity. On small parts, this doesn't matter much, but as your project gets larger, the movement becomes more of an issue.