NC Scroller Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 5 hours ago, octoolguy said: I can't believe how much adhesive ya'll use. I've still got my first can of 77. I did use up a small can of Elmer's that my wife had. Since switching to the shipping labels, I just don't use much anymore. I do a couple craft shows a year plus take some orders from past customers and friends so I make more pieces then the average hobby scroller. My 4 cans will last me 2 1/2 to 3 years. I also go through at least 4 sheets (5'x5') of 1/8" baltic birch a year and I never tracked the board feet of hardwood that I use a year because I do more wood working then just scroll saw work and I donate some of my work to the church and other organizations. OCtoolguy and new2woodwrk 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2woodwrk Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 13 hours ago, octoolguy said: I can't believe how much adhesive ya'll use. I've still got my first can of 77. I did use up a small can of Elmer's that my wife had. Since switching to the shipping labels, I just don't use much anymore. One can of 45 lasts me 42 - 62 units - I know this because I counted/tracked several complete cans. If I spray an entire board (avg 8"x15') at once it is 42 (need to use sawdust for sticky areas), if I spray individual patterns I can get up to 60 units out of a can. We wanted to move towards the labels as you describe but they do not work for me and are more expensive in the overall and way too much waste of the label. In a given 12"x8" area (avg area for one of the puzzles as example) there is still a waste area of about 4-6 total square inches which we now cover with a small pattern for another product Rockytime 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBob Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 16 hours ago, octoolguy said: I can't believe how much adhesive ya'll use. If I can get the shop time, which has been tough to do for more than a year, I'll go through the large 16.75 oz cans of 3M77 4 to 5 in a year. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 4 hours ago, new2woodwrk said: One can of 45 lasts me 42 - 62 units - I know this because I counted/tracked several complete cans. If I spray an entire board (avg 8"x15') at once it is 42 (need to use sawdust for sticky areas), if I spray individual patterns I can get up to 60 units out of a can. We wanted to move towards the labels as you describe but they do not work for me and are more expensive in the overall and way too much waste of the label. In a given 12"x8" area (avg area for one of the puzzles as example) there is still a waste area of about 4-6 total square inches which we now cover with a small pattern for another product You do realize you can cut out the actual pattern from the full sheet? You don't need to stick the whole full sheet down to your board. This is what I do and also what I do for normal paper patterns where I use the spray adhesive. I only spray the pattern not the full board, as the spray wasn't very cheap beforehand and now it's more than ever.. If you get 62 units from a can that cost $10 plus the cost of your regular paper.. the prep time to spray each pattern etc.. In my eyes anyway.. a 1000 shipping labels for about $60 just looks much cheaper than all of that hassle without actually doing the math.. and actually doing the math I think it comes out cheaper.. but I maybe wrong. I don't know how much regular printer paper cost off the top of my head. How much does a 1000 sheets of cheapest regular paper cost? How many cans of spray does it take to spray 1000 sheets.. How much quicker is it to just peel and stick your board full of patterns? I find these labels peel really easy.. There are other labels that have cross cuts on the back side so if you cut out the pattern in the center of the sheet there is usually a small cross cut on the back to grab hold to easily "start" peeling off the label from the backer. The ones I now use do not have the cuts on the back but they do peel quite easy if you pick at a edge with your finger nail. These are what I use.. They was $60 last time I bought ( last fall ).. Maybe doing a search can result in cheaper seller.. It takes me about a year to use these up, used to be 2 times a year when I used these for their purpose and printing my labels on them.. Now that I have a regular label maker I don't use the full sheet for labels. https://www.ebay.com/itm/172818314778?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 OCtoolguy and new2woodwrk 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2woodwrk Posted May 23, 2021 Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, kmmcrafts said: You do realize you can cut out the actual pattern from the full sheet? You don't need to stick the whole full sheet down to your board. This is what I do and also what I do for normal paper patterns where I use the spray adhesive. I only spray the pattern not the full board, as the spray wasn't very cheap beforehand and now it's more than ever.. If you get 62 units from a can that cost $10 plus the cost of your regular paper.. the prep time to spray each pattern etc.. In my eyes anyway.. a 1000 shipping labels for about $60 just looks much cheaper than all of that hassle without actually doing the math.. and actually doing the math I think it comes out cheaper.. but I maybe wrong. I don't know how much regular printer paper cost off the top of my head. How much does a 1000 sheets of cheapest regular paper cost? How many cans of spray does it take to spray 1000 sheets.. How much quicker is it to just peel and stick your board full of patterns? I find these labels peel really easy.. There are other labels that have cross cuts on the back side so if you cut out the pattern in the center of the sheet there is usually a small cross cut on the back to grab hold to easily "start" peeling off the label from the backer. The ones I now use do not have the cuts on the back but they do peel quite easy if you pick at a edge with your finger nail. These are what I use.. They was $60 last time I bought ( last fall ).. Maybe doing a search can result in cheaper seller.. It takes me about a year to use these up, used to be 2 times a year when I used these for their purpose and printing my labels on them.. Now that I have a regular label maker I don't use the full sheet for labels. https://www.ebay.com/itm/172818314778?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 I have done the math and my way works for me. It may not work for others but... I do know about cutting the label (there is where waste one occurs) - 8.5x11 sheet for 1 pattern = $60.00/1000 each page costs $.06 At most (being generous) you may use 3/4 of label so 1/4 of that is throw away or 1.5 cents per label that really adds up over time - your link has the price at $80 or .08 cents per but I'll use your post info Regular paper (I use recycled paper) costs $30 per case 10 reams in a case, 5000 papers = 30.00/5000 = $.006 or less than 1 penny a paper. If I waste half a sheet, I throw away 1/2 a penny (actually .003) I also know I can spray each pattern (which I do sometimes) - Saves me even more but spray the whole board for convenience - it's also how @Iguanadon/Scott showed me when I started. it is very convenient when laying out a lot of patterns to do it this way - and saves a lot of time! I was getting 66 units out of a can of adhesive which cost me 7.98 at the time = .$.12 cents per pattern (checked my spreadsheet for the exact numbers) - now with the 9.98 price obviously it will be slightly higher, but not enough to make me recalc costs (just adds .03 per pattern). So using this as my baseline, I pay $.13 cents per pattern as opposed to $.18 per pattern for labels just on paper and adhesive alone with less waste I do have to add in the cost of the self paper as well 12"x36' Shelf paper costs me $16.31 or $.45 cents per pattern approx. I can get more than 1 pattern in a small area which is not calculated as a cost but added as a "freebie" pattern since the cost is already absorbed by the first pattern So my total cost per pattern is approx. $ .45 + $ .13 and that does not include the cost of the wood, ink etc. An example pattern costs me approx $2.77 which includes wood, ink and everything incendetal but not the cost of the pattern which I only pay for once and use multiple times for more savings. Once I add my time overhead and establish a baseline price I add my profit So, while using a label may save me .50 per pattern, it does not save that much because of waste. It actually would cost me more because I would have to use multiple sheets to fill an area that I can fill with multiple paper patterns. So, logically you might say - print more than one pattern on a sheet - that takes time to figure out which patterns can be added to a sheet which increases the time overhead Whew - my head hurts now LOL Hope that helps Edited May 23, 2021 by new2woodwrk kmmcrafts and OCtoolguy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted May 24, 2021 Report Share Posted May 24, 2021 I know most patterns come in PDF.. really quick and simple to go into inkscape and make a quantity of two per page.. Also if you have a scanner and can scan the image to your computer.. then right click the file you can select print and a pop up opens and you can select to print two that way.. also can resize them to ornament sized and print 4 per page. I rarely waist half of the shipping label.. but it does take a minute on the computer to do this editing.. I typically do it anyway as I like to change the print from black to red anyway. Everyone has a different method in which works for them and none are wrong.. one persons version of convenience is different from another persons. To me no sticky fingers, no clogged nozzles, messy over sprays, and no throwing a 1/8 can of glue away because the cans air died before the can was empty is all convenient. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2woodwrk Posted May 24, 2021 Report Share Posted May 24, 2021 5 hours ago, kmmcrafts said: I know most patterns come in PDF.. really quick and simple to go into inkscape and make a quantity of two per page.. Also if you have a scanner and can scan the image to your computer.. then right click the file you can select print and a pop up opens and you can select to print two that way.. also can resize them to ornament sized and print 4 per page. I rarely waist half of the shipping label.. but it does take a minute on the computer to do this editing.. I typically do it anyway as I like to change the print from black to red anyway. Everyone has a different method in which works for them and none are wrong.. one persons version of convenience is different from another persons. To me no sticky fingers, no clogged nozzles, messy over sprays, and no throwing a 1/8 can of glue away because the cans air died before the can was empty is all convenient. True enough and agree completely. I have enough time invested in the patterns to not want to try to figure out which patterns I can fit on a sheet - with over 500 different available items the time the task would take me would be best spent elsewhere in the shop I've yet to throw a can away, and I keep a jar of mineral spirits near our glue up area - quick dip of the tips and good as gold I also save all my spray nozzles from all products just in case I get a clog in any of them. The nozzles are kept in a mineral spirits solution and if a paint can clogs, pull out a comparable nozzle and attach and away I go. Add the clogged nozzle to the solution for a rainy day. I am such a darn pack rat and hate to throw things away that I think I may be able to use in the futuere. I can't help myself , probably comes from my formative years of being less than well off. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2woodwrk Posted May 24, 2021 Report Share Posted May 24, 2021 UPDATE Amaz has the 3m 45 for 10.51 At least as of 5am this morning (5-24-21) that was the price OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 I think I see a dead horse. Let's beat him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 20 minutes ago, octoolguy said: I think I see a dead horse. Let's beat him. Hahahaha OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ike Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 I went on the internet and found some super77 spray 16 oz. size no price when I got there they had about 12 cans @ 10+change I got 4 cans shich will probably last the year The only ting about it is that it is a little harder to get the glue off the goard. I spray the board so the paper will come off with little effort . I had the glue on the puzzle over night and got no lift .i can live with it, IKE new2woodwrk and OCtoolguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgman Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 I stopped in to Lowe’s in Thousand Oaks CA. Found two box’s of 12 3M 77 on the shelf. It’s obvious they were just stocked. $9.99 a can.I only bought one as that will last me about a year. OCtoolguy and new2woodwrk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crupiea Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 I agree the prices and availability have gone through the roof. being in california I cant order it online either as I am clearly too stupid to responsibly use a can of glue. I can of course go to walmart and buy it if in stock. OCtoolguy and new2woodwrk 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAC1961 Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 I found Super 77 this morning at Menards for $10.99. They had plenty of other brands and "stickynesses" too. new2woodwrk and OCtoolguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl S Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) We need an Emoji for Beating a dead horse on here! Edited June 4, 2021 by Karl S Spelling new2woodwrk and OCtoolguy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 I guess my thoughts on beating the dead horse is if you're tired of reading / seeing it then don't open it back up and especially don't post a reply as that just brings it back to the top again, LOL.. To me the dead horse is those topics that are 1,2,5,8 ,10 years old that someone does CPR on it and revives it.. then others not even knowing that they've already replied to it way back when and start replying like it's a new thread again. LOL.. BUT, I don't complain about it.. just either ignore it or make a point of it being a old topic. I was at my local Meijer store today and seen they was sold out of all spray glues other than the gorilla brand. My opinion on the gorilla brand is it works okay you just gotta make sure you shake the can up good before spraying or your glue won't be sticky, LOL It has the marbles in it and says to shake / mix up well before spraying.. I found the more you mix it the stickier the glue is up to a point.. Mainly meaning it has to be shook up good or you may have a bad experience with it. new2woodwrk, OCtoolguy and JAC1961 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBob Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 Some old topics should be revived. new2woodwrk and OCtoolguy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 I don't mind old posts. If old enough they were posted before I was here. I'm sure the newer members here don't mind. Even if I had seen them before there are things I forget. new2woodwrk and OCtoolguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 On 6/4/2021 at 12:59 PM, crupiea said: I agree the prices and availability have gone through the roof. being in california I cant order it online either as I am clearly too stupid to responsibly use a can of glue. I can of course go to walmart and buy it if in stock. Thanks Crupia, nice to have someone else with my feelings. Rockytime and crupiea 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 A while back I was looking for something that I knew I had asked and someone provided a great answer. In the process of looking, I read some of my posts & questions. I have to admit that some of my questions I'm embarrassed to say I asked. I have to apologize to the members who have been here longer than me for having to endure my inane questions. I look back now and wish I could erradicate those "dumb" questions. I guess it's all part of the learning curve and also why some of the old threads come to the front again. Newbies all have the same questions and when they do a search the old threads are resurrected. new2woodwrk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2woodwrk Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 I don't see an issue with old posts myself. Just because someone has been on a while and has seen all the old posts, doesn't mean new visitors have seen them have you ever done a search on forums? It is not always easy to find what you are looking for and when you find something similar, often you're excited to have found anything and reply to an old post If it's old, and you've read it why bother posting about how old it is? Besides, this post is not that old! Rockytime and OCtoolguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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