Advice re. Machine

[Stretch]

I know this might seem ridiculous...

• I had a Dewalt,  which I liked a lot however I decided to upgrade this summer since I love scrolling so much I figured it was worth it, I bought a Pegas which I love and I am using it a lot.
• Today I got the opportunity to buy a Hegner Polymax 3  in mint/ new condition at an excellent price, if it had been there this summer I would have bought that instead.

The Hegner is supposed to be "the Best".  It is tempting, what would you do? If I bought it I would have to sell the nearly mint Pegas.

Would I notice any difference in use? durability?

 

[Scrappile]

I have a Hegner.  I would not part with it.  I think it is the most durable scroll saw on the market, and it should be for the price.  However they are not for every one, they  take a while to master, but worth the effort, bottom feed only (that turns a lot of people off) but I have never been a top feeder.  So even though I have one, If I saw one for a price I could not refuse, I would have another,  to me the only thing better than a Hegner is two Hegners.  In fact if I found a real good buy on a Pegas or a Seyco, I would probably have it.  It is really nice to have two saws.  You may get those on here that say the Hawk is the best.  I can't argue with them because I have never tried a Hawk.  If I found one at a price I couldn't resist I would probably have one.  

[rafairchild2]

32 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

 bottom feed only (that turns a lot of people off) but I have never been a top feeder.  ...

I always get messed up on bottom vs top feed. Is it feeding at the top of the wood by loosening the bottom chuck, vs. Bottom of the wood by loosening the top chuck?

I find if I loosen the bottom chuck, I usually wind up bending the blade as I am trying to put the arm down. 

So after removing tension, the photo below shows how I loosened the top chuck, so I threaded it from the bottom of the wood.

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by rafairchild2

[Gene Howe]

To make feeding from the bottom easier, I use a hand held pin vise with a small countersink bit to dimple the holes on the back. 

[Sycamore67]

If you are happy with the Pegas, I would stay with it.

I am a Hegner owner and really like it but it is a bit different and would take time to get used to.

[Scrappile]

1 hour ago, rafairchild2 said:

I always get messed up on bottom vs top feed. Is it feeding at the top of the wood by loosening the bottom chuck, vs. Bottom of the wood by loosening the top chuck?

I find if I loosen the bottom chuck, I usually wind up bending the blade as I am trying to put the arm down. 

So after removing tension, the photo below shows how I loosened the top chuck, so I threaded it from the bottom of the wood.

 

Bottom feeder feeds up through the bottom into the top clamp.  Top feeder goes down through.  I was never coordinated enough to go down through, like you say,  I end up with bent blades that break. I have had some times, big pieces with tiny hole to feed through, I take the blade out from the saw feed it through the hole in the wood them feed it down through the table top hole, while in the wood and connect it to both clamps.   Very rare but the closest I have come to successful top feeding.

[Gonzo]

I bought a new Hegner back in February.  I really really like it. I used to think my Ex-21 was awesome. Not anymore. Very rarely do I use the Excalibur.  Like Scrappile said, the Hegner does take a while to get used to. Changing of the blade takes a bit longer on the Hegner, but I’ll take its clamping system over any that is on the market. 
I’d buy another in a heartbeat. 

[Dave Monk]

I have both and wouldn't part with either one.

[kmmcrafts]

I have a Hawk, Hegner and Excalibur.. and have had a DeWalt and many other low end ryobi, deltas etc..

First off let me say.. they've all been great saws and served the purpose with some tweaking on my end to make them work as best they could.. There is a lot of variables between all these saws that have not been talked about.. Which one I like better is going to differ on what kind of project I'm making... IF I'm cutting thick 3/4" plus material I personally like the Excalibur best.. Large projects always get done on the Hawk because of the large throat (26" ) and large table top surface.. Quality of build? I'd say a Hawk and Hegner is probably equal.. there are quality things on both that I like and dislike..

Now to get to specifics of the saw itself.. I don't care how good the quality is or how many people rave a Hegner.. IF it doesn't have the up front tension release I'd be just a paper weight in my shop.. Not all Hegners are the same as is Hawk saws.. they've done little improvements over the years to make them either stronger built or more user friendly.. So my answer to your question is.. What type of sawing do you do and what options does the Hegner have? Front tension release? Quick Clamp?.. How much sawing do you really do? I mean a Pegas should last a weekend hobbyist many years.. you already know the saw and its use and abuse.. buying a old Hegner even though top quality saw... they do have parts wear out still.. so I don't know if it's worth the trade off as the cutting style to both saws is different with a long arm saw as it is the link arm saws like DeWalt and Pegas.. It took me a good 6 - 12 months of on and off use to get used to my long arm saw (Hawk) when the only thing I had used in the past was the short arm saws.. (DeWalt) and I thought to myself there has to be something with these saws because people rave them but to be completely honest I hated the Hawk for quite some time.. I was used to a aggressive style cut and the Hawk and Hegner are not.. 

I'd almost say to pass up on the deal.. or if it's cheap enough to make money off of... buy it and try it.. if you don't like it then sell it.. if you like it then sell the other saw....

 

[Rolf]

Kevin AKA kmmcrafts  Your answer is spot on!  I remember the discussions about the lack of aggression in the Hawk. 

I still have my Hawk G4-26 (2005) and now a used EX-16 with Pegas clamps. Like you I only use the Hawk for larger projects.  I have used the Hegners, they are bullet proof BUT I never liked their clamps and lack of top feeding capability. 

I love my tools but they need to do what they were designed for with a minimum of fuss. I want to spend my shop time creating not fiddling.  

[OCtoolguy]

I'm like Dave Monk. I have both and enjoy using both. If the deal is as good as you say, I'd buy it knowing that you can always sell either saw. But there is nothing wrong with having 2 saws. The thing I like about the Hegner saws is they have very few moving parts. Nothing to wear out if oiled occasionally. The Pegas has a bunch of bearings and sleeves to wear out and require a lot more care. If you are mechanically inclined that should not pose a problem.

 

[rafairchild2]

I love my Excal 21" with Pegas Chuck. I've got it tuned and modded up really nice.  It is quiet and does not vibrate. Also, what I wanted was the tilting head vs table. 

Side note: I take care of my tools, always cleaning when I am done for the day, and also doing preventative maintenance. Just something my father and shop teachers hammered in to me all those years ago.  I still have some of my father's tools, well over 60 years old.

[Rolf]

18 hours ago, rafairchild2 said:

I love my Excal 21" with Pegas Chuck. I've got it tuned and modded up really nice.  It is quiet and does not vibrate. Also, what I wanted was the tilting head vs table. 

Side note: I take care of my tools, always cleaning when I am done for the day, and also doing preventative maintenance. Just something my father and shop teachers hammered in to me all those years ago.  I still have some of my father's tools, well over 60 years old.

I agree with the tilting head. That is why if I decide to buy an new saw It will  be the Pegas.

[TAIrving]

On 10/19/2023 at 6:21 PM, rafairchild2 said:

I always get messed up on bottom vs top feed. Is it feeding at the top of the wood by loosening the bottom chuck, vs. Bottom of the wood by loosening the top chuck?

I find if I loosen the bottom chuck, I usually wind up bending the blade as I am trying to put the arm down. 

 

 

Top feeding vs bottom feeding is a matter of what you learn and get accustomed to.  Either way is easy enough once you get the hang of it and both ways present their difficulties until you do.  

I am a top-feeder because I have learned how to do that but never did get comfortable doing bottom feeding.  To each his own.  

[Rolf]

Top feeding is really helpful on large fretwork projects. It does take practice. It is easy on the Hawk G4 and my EX 16.

[FrankEV]

On 10/19/2023 at 8:01 PM, Gene Howe said:

To make feeding from the bottom easier, I use a hand held pin vise with a small countersink bit to dimple the holes on the back. 

I use a dremel with an attached wand and a small round ball bit in the chuck, to dimple the holes on the back side also.   Makes finding the hole without looking (which is almost impossiblet to do with a large panel) much easier.  I also like to keep my drill hole pattern as close together as the image pattern allows.  Much easier to jump from hole just cut to the next closest hole if it is close by.

[FrankEV]

On 10/20/2023 at 2:34 PM, rafairchild2 said:

...always cleaning when I am done for the day...

I keep my shop tools clean too...I just use my air hose to blow off the sawdust once in a while , after which I blow the saw dust off the floor and out the door.  Then the yard blower take over to clear the pavement.

My shop is so small, it is the easiest way to keep everything somewhat clean. 

I use my vac system to catch Table Saw, Bench Sander and Router generated sawdust, but it is not very useful for collecting the fine Scroll Saw sawdust.  I built a catch bucket under the SS table that catches a lot of the saw dust and small pieces that drops through the hole in the table.  The vac system is hooked up to it but I don't operate it constantly when scrolling.  The real problem is that I dont have the vac set up to catch the sawdust that is blown off the top of the table that gets on everything in the shop.  

Also , sanding with my palm sanders and mop, creates an abundance of fine dust that the vac system does not catch.  Again the Air hose is used to blow of the work bench, shelves, walls, etc. and then the floor...

BTW, the samll cut out pieces that are to big to fall throug the hole in the table are chucked into a wood collection bin (a cardbord box right now), but more often than not I miss (never could play basketball either) and they wind up all over the floor.  A broom and dustpan gets to them between projects, not cutting sessions. 

Ned Neatly I'm not!

Edited October 22, 2023 by FrankEV

[Sycamore67]

I rarely really clean my shop. I do keep my tools put away when I am done.  But when I am in the middle of a project, I will leave the tools out.  I do not blow the dust around in my shop because I do not want to breath it.  When I do clean the sadist I use a vacuum or the 4" hose on my dust collector.

Do to physical issues, I can only spend so much time in my shop.  I would rather spend time making sawdust than cleaning it up.  I would guess some would call me messy but I am comfortable with it.

[Eplfan2011]

32 minutes ago, Sycamore67 said:

 

Do to physical issues, I can only spend so much time in my shop.  I would rather spend time making sawdust than cleaning it up.  I would guess some would call me messy but I am comfortable with it.

This is exactly the way I work too !

And I'm also comfortable with it !

[kmmcrafts]

I do a deep clean of the whole shop twice a year.. This is vacuuming the walls ceiling and all the tools off. Then the tools and stands get waxed.. the nice smooth surface of the tools and stands makes it so the dust doesn't stick onto them as bad.. I never blow the dust.. always vacuum it. Also is when I do a good oiling, greasing of the saws. etc.. I may be wrong but I feel that fine dust all over stuff could be a fire hazard.. so I keep the shop clean as I can.  

[Rolf]

One of the Safety training videos I had to watch when I stated my Job at Brookhaven National Lab in 1979. Was about Dust. It showed a machine that caught on fire that caused a small internal explosion the shockwave caused all of the dust in the rafters to go air born and boom the building was gone. That was an eye opener.

[kmmcrafts]

My son is a firefighter, and it was brought up in his fire training... I knew this before that but he has open my eyes to a lot of fire starting hazards that I wouldn't have thought twice about.. such as tossing small AAA and other types batteries in the trash can.. They can ( especially in my shop trash where I sometimes toss in small pieces of metal old screws bolts ) short out and create enough heat to start fires.. I now wrap tossed out batteries in electrical tape so it'd be hard to get anything touching the + and - of the battery.  

Also lawn mowers.. I park them outside until they cool down.. blow any grass off and then move them inside.  

Edited October 23, 2023 by kmmcrafts

[rjweb]

Kevin, good point on the batteries i never thought of that, RJ

[Gene Howe]

My 20X40 shop is most often a disorganized mess. Two Shopsmths, various sanding machines, the scrollsaw, router table and, projects in process laying about. Don't have a centralized dust collection system. Just shop vacs and a 1 hp DC that gets moved around to which ever machine, usually one of the bandsaws. Consequently, stray saw dust and chips accumulate on the floor...and most other surfaces. Whenever it becomes intolerable, I'll break out the shop vac or, just say to heck with it and use a leaf blower. Just open the over head door, Don a dust mask and have at it. 

[TAIrving]

1 hour ago, Gene Howe said:

 ... stray saw dust and chips accumulate on the floor...and most other surfaces. Whenever it becomes intolerable, I'll break out the shop vac or, just say to heck with it and use a leaf blower. Just open the over head door, Don a dust mask and have at it. 

I also use the leaf blower at times, especially when I use my lathe.  I roll it, the lathe, next to the overhead door when I use it, then comes the leaf blower.  On the other hand, I often roll my planer outside to use it. 

The piles of sawdust are decomposable and go away with time.