Attaching Sawtooth Hangers

[kmmcrafts]

I've always used very small screws to attach sawtooth hangers to small plaques etc.. One issue I've always had was most times the project is made from 1/4" thick plywood and, screws or nails are sometimes just long enough to poke through the front side.. SO, how do you all attach hangers on the back of projects from thin wood? This is the projects I'm currently working on and they are layered ( backer is 1/4" the the front is 1/8" ) but I turned the tiny screws in just a tad too far and it budged out the wood in the front slightly.. sometimes I can get lucky enough to place the screw where there is that additional 1/8" material on the front.. other times I have to be careful to not poke through the project and ruin it. I've thought about using E6000 glue as well as screws so if the glue failed the screws would hold. I hate to run the screws in and leave them loose enough to allow the sawtooth hanger to be able to flop around a little.. I like for them to be snug to the project but then the screws many times will poke though. The little nails that come with the hangers are way to long so I've always bought the shortest smallest screws I could find.  

This project I had the screw just barely poke as I was checking it as it's not my first time ruining a piece but unfortunately I went to back the screw out just slightly and the screw head broke off.. that is a first especially since I predrilled tiny holes.. LOL.. So I removed the sawtooth and lowered it slightly.. this time using glue to hold it tight and then screws just in case the glue failed. 

Anyway, looking for suggestions for a better way.. Might have to glue a strip of 1/8" onto the back where the hanger will be attached but rather keep it with a cleaner closer to the wall look. 

[dgman]

What I do when the screw is too long is I grind off the tip of the screw with my grinder. I use a gimbal ( I think that’s what it is called) with tape to mark the thickness of the wood to start the screw hole. I have also used E6000 to mount hangers with out any failures.

[Fab4]

Hi Kevin:
Seeing it's the back of the project, I cut and glue a 1/8" rectangle, sometimes thicker, slightly bigger than the sawtooth hanger then glue it screw it in. As you mentioned in your message.
You can always just glue the hanger in place, but I don't trust that method too much
Fab4   
 

[barb.j.enders]

I have used a thick Gorilla glue to glue the hanger to the back. I put a blob of glue on the board, place the hanger and then a blob of glue on the top of the bracket.  To the best of my knowledge,  none have failed.

[Scrappile]

I have used 5 or 15 minute epoxy.   None have failed so far.   Two are still hanging on my wall, have been there for over 10 year.  That reminds me I need to change those pictures, I and tired of seeing them.  I have also used Paul's (the other Paul) method with the 1/8" piece of wood.

Kevin, your plaques are really nice.

Edited April 22 by Scrappile

[kmmcrafts]

Thanks everyone for sharing your methods.. I thought maybe I might be missing some special unique way to attach these but it seems everyone is doing the same things I've thought about trying with good results. 

I think I might just stick with the E6000 glue and then place screws in but not crank them down.. just in case the glue were to come loose at least the product won't go crashing to the ground if it has screws too. I'm new to that E6000 glue and have to say that stuff sticks to about anything and one items I tried to take back apart because I messed something up and it wasn't even fully dry yet.. lets just say I had to remake that piece, LOL. Love it for sealed up wood projects like painted backers etc. where the wood glue just doesn't bond well. Only downfall is the spiderweb stringy things it can create. Kinda reminds me of clear silicone caulking as it's a bit rubbery flexible etc.  

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I too have used the methods that have been mentioned. I do not use that E6000. I do not trust it. I used on a project once but was gluing brass to wood. Over time the brass fell off as the glue dried out. Anytime I need to glue anything I use epoxy. Now The best epoxy that I have found that stands the test of time is System3 T88 epoxy but is a 24 hour cure time. I have found over the years the longer the cure time the stronger the hold. I do use 15 minute epoxy on occassions if I know there will be no stress put on that piece. With a hook and weight of piece hanging from it I would not trust it. You adding the screws does add protection.  

[Denny Knappen]

I use 3/8" Baltic Birch plywood as backers and this eliminates this problem.  We have had framing projects with thin backers and used d-hangers attached with E6000 glue.

[TAIrving]

I cut a hanger from wood and attach it with titebond 3 glue.  Don't need the screws.  Titebond glue holds wood well enough for most 1/4" scroll saw work.  

[Wichman]

I can get the extra small #2 screws and washers at my local Lowes, they carry them in the 1/4" length. I use the panhead screws instead of counter sunk heads, as I find that adjusting the length using the washers works better with the panheads. 

I have found that the vast majority of adhesives state to allow 24 hrs (at room temperature) to fully cure.

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, Wichman said:

I can get the extra small #2 screws and washers at my local Lowes, they carry them in the 1/4" length. I use the panhead screws instead of counter sunk heads, as I find that adjusting the length using the washers works better with the panheads. 

I have found that the vast majority of adhesives state to allow 24 hrs (at room temperature) to fully cure.

That is actually what I use.. Not every screw will poke through but apparently they're not exactly consistent in length as sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.. Though I didn't get mine from Lowes.. I got them from woodworkingparts.com where I bought the hangers from too. 

[garryatpa]

When I have had wall hangings made of 1/8 or 1/4 inch wood and screws or small nails were not suitable I always used hot melt glue.  Put a dab on the wood where each end of the saw tooth hanger will go and press into the dabs of glue.  To increase the holding ability smooth another dab of glue over each end of the hanger so it extends over the glue pushed out the sides.

 

garry

[Jim McDonald]

I have drilled slightly undersized holes and then cut the nails shorter on an angle to make a new point.

[Bill WIlson]

If you are using pan head screws, you could add a washer or 2, either underneath the screw head or under the hanger.

 

 

 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Bill WIlson said:

If you are using pan head screws, you could add a washer or 2, either underneath the screw head or under the hanger.

 

 

 

Any Ideas on where to get such small washers? I kind of like this idea and years ago when I first ran into this I never found a source for really tiny washers. I'm using a #2 screw.. they'd have to be pretty small washers.

[Wichman]

Locally; Lowes. Online; Amazon at:

https://www.amazon.com/Washers-Commercial-Standard-Stainless-Quantity/dp/B01MEHT3EO/ref=pd_ybh_a_d_sccl_1/137-4733945-9562620?pd_rd_w=yERTo&content-id=amzn1.sym.67f8cf21-ade4-4299-b433-69e404eeecf1&pf_rd_p=67f8cf21-ade4-4299-b433-69e404eeecf1&pf_rd_r=DV5E747JMCJA92ZXQX5J&pd_rd_wg=Y1ynv&pd_rd_r=60db8cd8-21aa-43b6-80a0-49af5687f83f&pd_rd_i=B01MEHT3EO&th=1

 

[Millwab]

When I’m attaching a hanger to 1/4” substrate that isn’t very heavy I do the same thing Jim does … the nails that come with the hanger can easily be trimmed to fit and hold well.

[scrollerpete]

I used silicone, no complaints so far

[kmmcrafts]

26 minutes ago, scrollerpete said:

I used silicone, no complaints so far

Like silicone caulking? My father inlaw used to use that as a glue for a lot of things.. The E6000 glue really reminds me of silicone caulk including the smell and stringy gooey, LOL. Sticks to about anything and flexible. I imagine after a lot of years it'd dry out and crack etc..  What a way to market a product for a higher dollar value if it's the same thing. E6000 cost me $7 for a 2oz tube.. I can get a whole large tube of silicone for around the same price. Not that I'd use that much but, LOL 

[Bill WIlson]

18 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Any Ideas on where to get such small washers? I kind of like this idea and years ago when I first ran into this I never found a source for really tiny washers. I'm using a #2 screw.. they'd have to be pretty small washers.

Where I worked, we used lots of them, but we did a lot of electronic assembly with very small fasteners.  I don't remember where we got them, but I'm pretty sure McMaster-Carr would have some.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Amazon has brass washers of any size.

 

[Peter N White]

Small washer are usually available at model radio controlled yacht sites.they use them for making their sails. 

[BadBob]

With very few exceptions, I don't use hangers. I hang things on tiny nails that I push into the wall with a small amount (1/16-1/8"), sticking out so they catch in the edge of the frame, slots, or other holes. The exceptions are things like key racks that get handled a lot. I have a map in a frame with a glass front that is 3 feet long and has been hung this way for more than 30 years. It works because the head of the nail digs in slightly dnd prevents the frame from sliding off. If there isn't a frame, I cut a narrow slot centered on the balance point. I used straight pins when I first started using this method, but they are too soft and bend easily when pushing them into walls. 

[dgman]

8 hours ago, BadBob said:

With very few exceptions, I don't use hangers. I hang things on tiny nails that I push into the wall with a small amount (1/16-1/8"), sticking out so they catch in the edge of the frame, slots, or other holes. The exceptions are things like key racks that get handled a lot. I have a map in a frame with a glass front that is 3 feet long and has been hung this way for more than 30 years. It works because the head of the nail digs in slightly dnd prevents the frame from sliding off. If there isn't a frame, I cut a narrow slot centered on the balance point. I used straight pins when I first started using this method, but they are too soft and bend easily when pushing them into walls. 

That is not a bad strategy for us woodworkers to hang our own stuff to a wall, but when you are making things for sale, you have to make it easy for the customer to hang it.

[kmmcrafts]

Yeah Displaying a plaque hanging on a wall and then selling it on Etsy without any hanging hardware attached would be a good way to get some negative feedback. 

I'm going to be installing hangers on these but will also offer a easel stand add-on option should they not want to hang it up.. some apartment buildings don't allow you to hang things on the walls or only allow certain amount of things to be hung up etc.